Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
When will you forgive AP/UB? When will you forgive AP/UB?

07-17-2009 , 01:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by allinken
At least the good 2+2er's
The good 2+2ers already play there. The good players i mean.
When will you forgive AP/UB? Quote
07-17-2009 , 01:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoonist
ub and ap will be forgiven if / when the software is the best, customer service is the best, rakeback is the best and games are the best

if all of those things happen nobody will worry about the scandal anymore
Their customer service(better than FT atleast), rakeback, bonuses, and cash games are some of the best. The software still leaves a lot to be desired. Sit-n-gos aren't very good, mostly because of the way they are organized in the software, and the structure could use some improvements. Tournaments could use some slight improvements.

The biggest benefit is for U.S. players, as they can easily deposit from their credit card. Cashing out isn't too bad either. It's worth it if you are willing to spend the extra $20 for the FedEx, or so I hear.
When will you forgive AP/UB? Quote
07-17-2009 , 02:00 AM
Quote:
nally Posted by allinken
At least the good 2+2er's
Quote:
The good 2+2ers already play there. The good players i mean.
I meant the good players too

Wouldnt be surprised if this was true I considered switching from FTP to UB just in the last week. FTP offered me rakebake so Im sticking with them.
When will you forgive AP/UB? Quote
07-17-2009 , 02:01 AM
It's easy to forgive someone.

Consider the 1982 tylenol murders where medicine capsules had been laced with cyanide. This could have completely destroyed the Tylenol brand. However, Johnson & Johnson acted quickly and aggressively to address the security concerns. The end-result was that Tylenol was the safest product on the market, and it regained all of its lost marketshare.

AP/UB didn't fully address the issues and hasn't provided any transparency at all. At this point, even if they did do these things it would be hard to forgive them. Time by itself will not provide forgiveness but it will make some forget.
When will you forgive AP/UB? Quote
07-17-2009 , 02:04 AM
Didn't they just recently ship a pot to Hellmuth that he lost? I dont think there are even done doing shady ****, so how could one forgive them?
When will you forgive AP/UB? Quote
07-17-2009 , 02:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VectorWega
It's easy to forgive someone.

Consider the 1982 tylenol murders where medicine capsules had been laced with cyanide. This could have completely destroyed the Tylenol brand. However, Johnson & Johnson acted quickly and aggressively to address the security concerns. The end-result was that Tylenol was the safest product on the market, and it regained all of its lost marketshare.

AP/UB didn't fully address the issues and hasn't provided any transparency at all. At this point, even if they did do these things it would be hard to forgive them. Time by itself will not provide forgiveness but it will make some forget.

It depends on what is they are covering up

If for example not being transparent is keeping current owners/execs from going to jail. Then money/marketshare is secondary

Tylenol didnt have a choice to cover things up. Not saying they would have covered it up if they did

Please correct me if im wrong and give details
When will you forgive AP/UB? Quote
07-17-2009 , 02:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VectorWega
It's easy to forgive someone.

Consider the 1982 tylenol murders where medicine capsules had been laced with cyanide. This could have completely destroyed the Tylenol brand. However, Johnson & Johnson acted quickly and aggressively to address the security concerns. The end-result was that Tylenol was the safest product on the market, and it regained all of its lost marketshare.

AP/UB didn't fully address the issues and hasn't provided any transparency at all. At this point, even if they did do these things it would be hard to forgive them. Time by itself will not provide forgiveness but it will make some forget.
This analogy would only have a shred of relevance if Johnson & Johnson's owners were the ones lacing the pills with cyanide.
When will you forgive AP/UB? Quote
07-17-2009 , 02:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTruthSpeaks
This analogy would only have a shred of relevance if Johnson & Johnson's owners were the ones lacing the pills with cyanide.
It is completely relevant. There are actions that could have been taken by both AP and UB to regain the trust of the vast majority of poker players but they did not take those steps.

BTW, even if high level execs/owners hadn't been involved in the incidents, these companies still wouldn't deserve forgiveness, simply due to their lack of transparency. It's funny how much blind trust poker players have in these sites that they depend on to make a living.

Last edited by VectorWega; 07-17-2009 at 02:27 AM.
When will you forgive AP/UB? Quote
07-17-2009 , 02:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by allinken
It depends on what is they are covering up

If for example not being transparent is keeping current owners/execs from going to jail. Then money/marketshare is secondary

Tylenol didnt have a choice to cover things up. Not saying they would have covered it up if they did

Please correct me if im wrong and give details

I wasn't talking about their own motivation/goals. I was simply talking about forgiveness, which is something they should not receive.
When will you forgive AP/UB? Quote
07-17-2009 , 02:38 AM
Quote:
inally Posted by allinken
It depends on what is they are covering up

If for example not being transparent is keeping current owners/execs from going to jail. Then money/marketshare is secondary

Tylenol didnt have a choice to cover things up. Not saying they would have covered it up if they did

Please correct me if im wrong and give details
Quote:
Originally Posted by VectorWega
I wasn't talking about their own motivation/goals. I was simply talking about forgiveness, which is something they should not receive.
I see

It is to late for forgivness
When will you forgive AP/UB? Quote
07-17-2009 , 02:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonPope
Mookman, what do you think?
Alas, my post would be tl;dr. Freudain got most of it below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian
They have to be 100% transparent about everything. All the transactions, all the super users and the exact ownership structure at different points. It won't happen since they are still hiding pretty everything they aren't forced to admit due to overwhelming evidence.

Scum company covering for scum thieves. They won't see another cent of my rake.
1. The Superuser accounts named, all "88" Even though I have been told privately, it is most likely more, but have no proof. To starts the 88 names.

2. All players get their HH's. To take it a step further, release the HH's of the cheating accounts to see how they played and how much they won. As a side note, it is hard to believe they are accurate or unaltered, but at the very least they should make public everything they used in the settlement to calculate refunds. Privacy is not an issue here,

3. Who besides Russ Hamilton was involved?

4. The ownership structure. It seems hard to believe that Joe Norton owned UB/AP/Blast Off this whole time.

5. Most likely never, given the misinformation that Annie Duke and Paul Leggett have been saying for months now. It has almost been a year since Tokwiro (Why not Blast-Off?) Concluded it's investigation, but still nothing has been done.

6. The KGC releases its final report. Maybe strips UB/AP of their liscenses, afterall, that it is what is in the KGC's rules. But alas, it will all be blamed on "former mangement" and overlook the lack of transparency involved.

Go ahead, talk **** on me for this post or continuing to write about the UB scandal. It just makes me sick when a company/regulatory agency says they will do something, then keep pushing it off and ignoring requests. Giving the players the middle finger and going on with business as usual. I may suck, but I will never let this be ignored.
When will you forgive AP/UB? Quote
07-17-2009 , 03:09 AM
As soon as they give full disclosure of the superuser list.
When will you forgive AP/UB? Quote
07-17-2009 , 03:21 AM
It just occured to me that forgiving AP/UP is not the same thing as giving them business in the future.

Up till now ive been assuming that they were the same
When will you forgive AP/UB? Quote
07-17-2009 , 03:33 AM
Really UB/AP are just trash.

The coverup was worse than the crime in regards to the superuser scandal ( 6 months + of bull****ting customers ).

Changing bonus terms after deposits.
Most of their cash tables are BBJ tables so the effective rake is ******edly high.
Annie multi-accounting MTT win via boyfriends account while she was meant to be live commentating it and came in late.

Setup fake pro $250k freeroll, where the winner was actually only paid $25k. ( organised by russ hamilton ).



Basically even if you disregard the superuser stuff its still a scummy network.

When will people finally stop playing there? When you have to let annie duke poop on your face everytime you want to withdraw money?


Oh not to mention the weekly phonecalls asking you why you stopped playing there ( I got like 5-6 of these ).
When will you forgive AP/UB? Quote
07-17-2009 , 03:34 AM
none of us have seen any PPA petition/membership drives originating from AP/UB. No official or unofficial statements/opinions from AP/UB or Phil Hellmuth regarding the UIGEA.

Coincidence?

of course not.

The moment UIGEA gets repealed/overturned, the DoJ goes rabid on UB/AP.

================================================== ======

Germany can easily be forgiven imho.

What grinds my gears is that, even 140+ years after the Civil War,
Confederate Veteran's Day is still celebrated in the Southern US.
=============================================

to a previous poaster, regarding the liquid nitrogen:
yes, quite possibly, the actual liquid nitrogen kept inside the dewar could reach above 0 degrees celsius, if stored at pressues greater than, say 2000psi [about 140 bars 4 u europeans btw]. The state of Texas aint gonna be too happy
about TI storing 25-50 gallons of that stuff at those pressures.

Semantincally speaking, I was referring to liquid nitrogen
under normal atmospheric conditions-
minus 196 C, approx.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_nitrogen

Last edited by spike420211; 07-17-2009 at 03:47 AM.
When will you forgive AP/UB? Quote
07-17-2009 , 03:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoonist
ub and ap will be forgiven if / when the software is the best, customer service is the best, rakeback is the best and games are the best

if all of those things happen nobody will worry about the scandal anymore
If this is true for 2+2er's, they are keeping quiet about it.

Their software is not the most user-friendly, but it is very fast.

Their support is the best by a mile. FTP takes forever to do anything and stars doesn't even seem to have a telephone number.

Their rakeback is not nearly as good as FTP's after the changes, I believe. However, I get 0% at FTP since I was too dumb to figure out what rakeback was when I first opened an account there like 6 years ago.

Their games are the best for some games/limits, and not for others.
When will you forgive AP/UB? Quote
07-17-2009 , 03:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonInDallas
What or how long will it take?
Never. Why should they be forgiven?

The electric chair is too good for those scum. Like Ken Lay and Jeff Skillings.

They rate above child molesters but just barely.
When will you forgive AP/UB? Quote
07-17-2009 , 04:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eponymous
So when did you forgive Hitler?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonInDallas
Your implied analogy is flawed.

I never forgave him nor have I forgiven the AP/UB cheaters and people who facilitated it, however I have forgiven Germany and probably will forgive Cereus at some point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonInDallas
IDNCY.

The analogy to AP/UB is valid. Supposedly the cheaters are gone, they paid some reparations, yet the entity still operates under the same common name.

You want to hold a grudge against the whole of Cereus because of what some rogue cheaters and execs did, yet you forgive Germany as a whole despite what some rogues and leaders did .


What AP/UB did and is doing would be like if Hitler seemingly left the picture and the Nazi party stayed in power and promised to never do it again. They could claim to change their whole agenda and offer reperations to the Jews and call it all a regrettable mistake, and never fully come clean about all Nazi higher-ups and hold them accountable, who may stay in some way linked to the party.

I'm not an historian but my understanding is that there was a complete overhaul of EVERYTHING in the German government and then things were put back together with a degree of transparency to the international community.

What AP/UB is doing now is EVASIVE. They are focusing all their efforts on recruiting new players that may not fully understand what took place, and hoping previous customers will be lured back with bonuses and such and will gradually forget about the whole mess. They're basically hoping that with time the whole thing will blow over and people will eventually dismiss it as a thing of the past.

I don't know who makes these decisions over there, maybe their marketing people are smarter than I am and this is the optimal route for them to take.

Or maybe complete transparency and gaining the full confidence of the poker community would be more optimal long-term, and they know this, however full disclosure would be in some way detrimental to PEOPLE CURRENTLY INVOLVED WITH AP/UB.

We have no way of knowing since they haven't told us ****. I, like many people, will likely never know if I was cheated or not. Am I just to assume I wasn't because I didn't play the highest stakes? Is that really enough reassurance?

I will never, ever, ever put a single ****ing penny on that site or anything associated with it.

Oh and 100% agree with whoever said it's silly how so many online players blindly trust the integrity of all other poker sites when their entire livelihood depends on it.
When will you forgive AP/UB? Quote
07-17-2009 , 04:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonInDallas
What or how long will it take?
When you can have your first snowballfight in hell.
When will you forgive AP/UB? Quote
07-17-2009 , 05:01 AM
I would never even consider using them again and if anyone I talk to wants to start up online I'll tell them specifically not to use these sites.
When will you forgive AP/UB? Quote
07-17-2009 , 06:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrwalken
If this is true for 2+2er's, they are keeping quiet about it.

Their software is not the most user-friendly, but it is very fast.

Their support is the best by a mile. FTP takes forever to do anything and stars doesn't even seem to have a telephone number.

Their rakeback is not nearly as good as FTP's after the changes, I believe. However, I get 0% at FTP since I was too dumb to figure out what rakeback was when I first opened an account there like 6 years ago.

Their games are the best for some games/limits, and not for others.
You've made this same post now at least twice in this thread. Now tell me you aren't a shill for UB.
When will you forgive AP/UB? Quote
07-17-2009 , 06:55 AM
when they drop lacey!
When will you forgive AP/UB? Quote
07-17-2009 , 07:14 AM
At this point it's clear AP/UB is betting on apathy and ignorance rather than forgiveness, and everyone associated with that company seems to have found the right price for their integrity.
When will you forgive AP/UB? Quote
07-17-2009 , 07:21 AM
I won´t ever trust them again, since they´ve shown off their dishonesty waaay too often imo.
They basically tried to cover up the whole scandal and do business as usual so they clearly made a statement that they value integrity only to that extend which increases their profits (respectively NOT DECREASING profits).
They gambled and tried to sit it all out but failed and lost customers and THEN started to slowly give out informations.

This behaviour clearly show the mentality of the owners and I can´t ever trust this kind of people again.
When will you forgive AP/UB? Quote
07-17-2009 , 07:54 AM
Why would anyone with a conciounce (spelt wrong) or a bit of self respect ever play on ultimate bet or absolute poker again. They have decieved and ripped off their customers.

Anyone who plays on or is associated with this company should be spit on
When will you forgive AP/UB? Quote

      
m