I eventually stopped playing Chess because a) I have back and neck problems at the PC and long hours of Chess are terrible for it and b) I have other things I'd rather spend that time on, especially considering that I already play poker and Chess offers no monetary gain to me.

Years ago, I told them that intermittent engine use was what players were using to avoid detection. Since then, people have gotten even better at it. Lichess seems to be more aware of this and as a result, catches far more cheaters based on trends throughout multiple games. Chess.com has always been playing catchup when it comes to cheat detection. PlayChess, ICC, etc - they're all pretty good with cheat detection at this point.

They have a system in chess to catch cheaters but I would wager the systems they have to catch cheaters on poker sites like Stars are far, far more advanced. Cheating is endemic in chess, you can listen to Hikaru talking over this recent C-Squared pod on the issue to get an idea of the problem.

What no one wants to admit is that the problem isn't solvable within the current constrains of the technology that is being used. If you have a clean account with access to high stakes games, you know how to setup RTA with a good system of separate networks, computers etc and you are a good player already who understands how to use the knowledge in a way that gives you an edge but doesn't make you look like a GTO bot there is literally nothing these sites can do to catch these players. You can talk all you like about improvements in security, you can't catch anyone who is sophisticated enough to know how to cheat.

You have an ecosystem where some players are still winning (prob many of them cheating), sites are still collecting rake and neither have any incentive for things to change. So as long as the losing payers keep showing up to prop up the current farce who cares if they are losing money through lack of skill or being cheated.

I feel like the vast majority of players are aware of this truth but still play if they feel like they have a win rate. We have reached a point where the cheating is so endemic that if you are playing online you almost can't complain if you are getting cheated.

“caveat emptor”

@BlackJackDegen:

So what do you suggest? We all just stop playing in such a number that the sites finally have no choice but to cave?

Cave and do what though? I haven't seen anyone come up with solutions?

There is a reason that once things become solvable they don't get played online for money. Poker has gotten more longevity than I ever would have imagined. I guess because the veil of ignorance is much larger than other games because luck/skill are so intertwined in the outcome.

Poker is by no means even close to being solved.

I've played online poker for a living for 20 years now. 98% cash games. For all the bashing online poker has taken in this thread, I do think most of it comes down to, do you trust the site? I personally do trust the legal online facing sites in NV, NJ, Mich, Penn. They certainly are not perfect (it took them 2 months to stop a guy every 2-5 reg knew was using a solver), but I feel far more comfortable the last 3 years than i did that I am not being cheated from 2014-2020 playing on every other site imaginable. If you don't trust the site you are playing on, simply don't play on it.

With that said, live regs need to be better. The only people in the room having fun are a select few 1-2 games and stupid big games. I play once every 3-4 months when I have plenty of beers, gamble on sports, play big vpip, and talk ****. The amount of times the life has been sucked out of me within 2 hours is outrageous. Like a dealer said in this thread, the amount of times a dealer comes to table big smile and asks how everyone is doing and is met with 7 people mad at this question is just terrible.

99% of live regs are broke. Hence they are mad.

is there a process in place to report collusion / multicounting on betonline poker??

How to avoid ever being wrong about a prediction: don't specify a deadline

The earth will also eventually explode so unless we find light speed travel poker will definitely die

Less exploding, more charred to giant piece of charcoal by expanding, dying Sun.