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Old 08-07-2013, 03:04 PM   #1
David Sklansky
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What Is Your Reaction To This Altered Holdem Game (Exposed Unused Cards)

Suppose some cards, perhaps between three and six, were dealt out face up, perhaps all before the start of the deal or perhaps at different preset times (eg three before the deal, two before the flop, one before the turn, or something like that.) They are not used by anybody except to recalculate strategy and add another aspect to it.

Would you like to see such a game exist, either live or online?
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Old 08-07-2013, 03:12 PM   #2
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Re: What Is Your Reaction To This Altered Holdem Game (Exposed Unused Cards)

I might like it in a live fixed limit live game where strong players don't already have as much of a massive edge over weak players, but I don't think it would really add any appeal to the game for most people.
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Old 08-07-2013, 03:14 PM   #3
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Re: What Is Your Reaction To This Altered Holdem Game (Exposed Unused Cards)

Interesting i guess, What about showing the burnt cards?
Ala the cards before flop/turn/river that get thrown away.


Would probably make people tighter though?
Such as with flush draws and such you can tell that there is now for example 3 or 4 less suited cards in the deck so the play is so different.
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Old 08-07-2013, 03:22 PM   #4
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Re: What Is Your Reaction To This Altered Holdem Game (Exposed Unused Cards)

that reasoning goes both ways

(obv...)
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Old 08-07-2013, 03:28 PM   #5
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Re: What Is Your Reaction To This Altered Holdem Game (Exposed Unused Cards)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaycareInferno View Post
... I don't think it would really add any appeal to the game for most people.
+1, but I love it.
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Old 08-07-2013, 03:28 PM   #6
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Re: What Is Your Reaction To This Altered Holdem Game (Exposed Unused Cards)

Why not turn each burn card face up?
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Old 08-07-2013, 03:56 PM   #7
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Re: What Is Your Reaction To This Altered Holdem Game (Exposed Unused Cards)

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Originally Posted by David Sklansky View Post
Would you like to see such a game exist, either live or online?
At low stakes I would love it. In a 1/2NLHE game last night a King was exposed preflop. That did not deter the player on the button from playing with K4o.
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Old 08-07-2013, 04:04 PM   #8
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Ive thought about having a variant of holdem where every card that would be face down in a hand and not in play (muck, burn cards) is actually face up. Would be interesting cause everyone would now have to fold face up
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Old 08-07-2013, 04:59 PM   #9
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Re: What Is Your Reaction To This Altered Holdem Game (Exposed Unused Cards)

I actually think this takes away from overall poker strategy. All it does is make foggy situations more clear.

So to add to Daycare's comment this would just make fishy players more fishy rather than adding an interesting element to the game.
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Old 08-07-2013, 05:05 PM   #10
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Re: What Is Your Reaction To This Altered Holdem Game (Exposed Unused Cards)

I base all my river spews on blockers so not sure I'd like less of them
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Old 08-07-2013, 05:14 PM   #11
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Re: What Is Your Reaction To This Altered Holdem Game (Exposed Unused Cards)

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At low stakes I would love it. In a 1/2NLHE game last night a King was exposed preflop. That did not deter the player on the button from playing with K4o.
Ha I was going to post a similar story from a LHE game at Thunder Valley a few months ago. In mine, a four was exposed. A player called three bets cold with 44. He called a bet and raise cold on the flop then turned his set.

Of course, seeing an exposed card worked "against" me the following week. I folded J9 when a 10 was flipped up during the deal (note: I don't actually know if that's good or bad fold, I'm just saying it did affect my decision not to call). I would have flopped trip jacks. #resultsoriented

To the OP's question, I guess I would enjoy this as more of a one-off (like Greek hold 'em) in a lively home game than anything I'd want to see in a card room. That said, did the Quad retain the weird 12-game at Imperial Palace? I could see this getting worked into that mix.
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Old 08-07-2013, 05:21 PM   #12
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Re: What Is Your Reaction To This Altered Holdem Game (Exposed Unused Cards)

what about allowing side action to allow the burnt cards to be shown or not shown by the players?

player 1 wants to see, proposes to pay X amount, player 2 says no and offers higher amount.

I know its stupid but just trying to bring something to the discussion.
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Old 08-07-2013, 05:41 PM   #13
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Re: What Is Your Reaction To This Altered Holdem Game (Exposed Unused Cards)

No.
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Old 08-07-2013, 05:52 PM   #14
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Re: What Is Your Reaction To This Altered Holdem Game (Exposed Unused Cards)

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Originally Posted by MK7749 View Post
what about allowing side action to allow the burnt cards to be shown or not shown by the players?

player 1 wants to see, proposes to pay X amount, player 2 says no and offers higher amount.

I know its stupid but just trying to bring something to the discussion.
it would have to be a set amount to see such as 2-5bb which any player could pay at any time in order for there to be more than one hand every 73 hours, this option would add significant strategy to the game. also, that idea wasn't stupid at all, i feel that discussion would make the thread much more interesting.
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Old 08-07-2013, 05:57 PM   #15
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Re: What Is Your Reaction To This Altered Holdem Game (Exposed Unused Cards)

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky View Post
Suppose some cards, perhaps between three and six, were dealt out face up, perhaps all before the start of the deal or perhaps at different preset times (eg three before the deal, two before the flop, one before the turn, or something like that.) They are not used by anybody except to recalculate strategy and add another aspect to it.

Would you like to see such a game exist, either live or online?
The game is better with either a (2card flop 1 card turn and a 2 card river) Or a (1 card flop 1 card turn 3 card river) This should be great for live and online.
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Old 08-07-2013, 05:59 PM   #16
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Re: What Is Your Reaction To This Altered Holdem Game (Exposed Unused Cards)

i would not like to see another cracked out poker game such as this exist.

#getgood
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Old 08-07-2013, 06:00 PM   #17
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Re: What Is Your Reaction To This Altered Holdem Game (Exposed Unused Cards)

I think that making everyone fold face up would be a lot of fun. That would not be a very welcoming game to new players, who would be afraid of embarrassing themselves more often, but I would like to try it in a home game.
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Old 08-07-2013, 06:02 PM   #18
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Re: What Is Your Reaction To This Altered Holdem Game (Exposed Unused Cards)

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The game is better with either a (2card flop 1 card turn and a 2 card river) Or a (1 card flop 1 card turn 3 card river) This should be great for live and online.
Can you explain why showing burn/unused cards would make any difference when you change the entire texture of the game? Without showing those cards, that is enough of a change already.
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Old 08-07-2013, 06:07 PM   #19
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Re: What Is Your Reaction To This Altered Holdem Game (Exposed Unused Cards)

It is a great game for the early adopters as they can create an edge over people who take the game up after them.

Any variant of a current game could be a nice catalyst for the poker economy.

In short, change is good.
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Old 08-07-2013, 06:20 PM   #20
David Sklansky
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Re: What Is Your Reaction To This Altered Holdem Game (Exposed Unused Cards)

Surprised that nobody has mentioned the effect on multitablers.
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Old 08-07-2013, 06:21 PM   #21
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Re: What Is Your Reaction To This Altered Holdem Game (Exposed Unused Cards)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajt8 View Post
Can you explain why showing burn/unused cards would make any difference when you change the entire texture of the game? Without showing those cards, that is enough of a change already.
I wouldn't show any burns. I am saying that changing the game to these options would be a BETTER change.
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Old 08-07-2013, 06:53 PM   #22
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Re: What Is Your Reaction To This Altered Holdem Game (Exposed Unused Cards)

The burnt cards are shown face up:

If a Queen is shown- the next card becomes a wild card on the board or in your hand
If a 4 is shown- threes and nines in your hole cards become wild
The burnt cards will be placed vertically forming a cross with the horizontal cards- a player can elect to either play the vertical board or the horizontal board with his hole cards for his best hand.

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Old 08-07-2013, 06:57 PM   #23
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Re: What Is Your Reaction To This Altered Holdem Game (Exposed Unused Cards)

my instinct sais it would ruin parts of the game that makes it fun.im guessing what will happen is less action because people wont fish/semibluff knowing their draw is blocked. hands become more polarised when everybody sees cards (even 1 is usually enough for a redeal)

eventho i might be wrong and u could be onto something...have u tried it in homegame and what was response?
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Old 08-07-2013, 07:00 PM   #24
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Re: What Is Your Reaction To This Altered Holdem Game (Exposed Unused Cards)

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky View Post
Surprised that nobody has mentioned the effect on multitablers.
So what's the plan David? Take it to stars?

I think it sounds alright (especially in conjunction with all the bot talk). The more subtle variations of NLHE, the less profitable it is for bot-makers.

You could expose 3 cards eg. (1 on each postflop street). Or you could expose, 1 on the flop, 0 on the turn and 10 on the river if you wanted.
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Old 08-07-2013, 07:21 PM   #25
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makes it more solved. the answer is definitely 'maybe' to the op, but if i had to choose id ask for them for the sake of boredome. i think it could make aces more valuable (for more than one reason) and make deepstack a nightmare for ppl who don't wear sunglasses.
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