This

Your my hero nuisance, Great post.

Levelled him good.

OP,

TL;DR

Three fiddy is the real thing you need, not two cents,

I am wondering what your feeling is in relation to douchy threads or am i being too nitty.

On the otherhand I agree with you in relation to the materialistic nature of poker but if i had the cash i would be as materialistic, rolex, lambo etc.

Ops you say you hate poker shows, why?
You hate poker slang, why? Etc Etc

You seem eager for discussion, but you need to give reasons.

OP here...

Sorry, not feeling so eloquent on the matter I guess. The whole poker flavor just leaves a really bad taste in my mouth. It's tacky, fake, shallow, etc. The lore and the mystique that the poker businesses and networks try to pump up is so overdone and insincere. I can't stand it.

I like a lot of poker players however, both online and live. I like many members of the 2+2 community who post in the more serious forums--as opposed to NVG and BBV, no offense. Most people on here are quite cool, helpful, interesting...

I just wish poker had a different image, and wasn't hyped up so much in the wrong ways.

As oppose to other businesses or government? See the way we sell shoes lately or hear about how some banking execs received huge bonuses after doing things they knew would increase profit in the short term but financially ruin the country in the long term? Watch cable news for goodness sakes? I absolutely hate it when people appear to hold poker up to a light that they don't hold other enterprises up to. A corporate lawyer who makes a living finding tax loopholes and ways around pollution regulation is lauded while poker players are criticized for being too materialistic. A politician who orders the rounding up of homeless people to make the city look "cleaner" is considered respectable (in Atlanta for the Olympics they even had the arrest warrants pre-written to fit the description of the kind of people they wanted to make disappear for a while). Bankers who give people loans they obviously can not afford (should poker players be held to a higher standard than them?). Big businessmen and corporate lawyers who parade around in suits and throw around money are things to be aspired to regardless of how they make their fortune so long as they [I]appear[I] respectable. Just have a traditional family and a nice home and no one really cares so long as you appear respectable, and decent and normal.

I wonder if you truly have as much disdain for bosses who won't hire black people who wear their hair natural, or women who don't wear make-up and heels and pantyhose, or hire people on the basis of their looks (such as receptionists, salespeople, etc.), or U.S. Supreme Court Justices who tend to pick clerks from the schools they attended even though it is a highly classist thing to do. Poker may be those things, but it is no different than just about anything else. And just because one plays poker does not mean they have to buy in, just as being a corporate businessperson,politician, lawyer, or media/casting person does not mean you have to buy in. As a matter of fact, it is easier to get by in poker if you have the skill w/o subscribing than in those other areas. You don't have to buy in to win at poker but if you want success in those other areas chances are you are going to have to play the conventionally attractive and "normal" game, hair straighteners, make-up, nice clothes, right school and all.

I feel like poker could have a legitimate chance of separating itself from all the rest of that other bull**** you mention. But, like everyone else, we are doing it wrong. The appeal of poker (and that which is conveyed to the public) should come from the fundamentals of the game, the psychology, the math, the competition, the fun, etc. Instead what is capitalized on is all the bull**** imagery marketers think creates the most profitable culture. And what's more sad is all the legitimate players who embrace this phony image, regurgitate its slogans, blow their own hot air into the big, fat hype balloon. It really puts me off, and even kind of pushes me away from the game.

I never said it was any different from anything else, any worse that is. The reason I did not bring up my disdain for all that other stuff you've mentioned in your post is because this is a poker forum. I try to stick to the topic at hand without going off on any longwinded tangents.

It is unlikely that poker would separate itself because then there wouldn't be as many ways for non-poker players and theorists to make money. Capitalized, as in capitalism, is exactly the right word. Take anything and someone who otherwise had nothing invested will try to make money from it. Just look at what has happened to mainstream rap music. The same can be said of sports and music. Team owners, shoe companies, etc. make tons and tons of money off the players without so much as ever going for a jog much less playing in a game or even understanding all the aspects of the game. If you look at how much players make and how much the people that sign their checks make it is a joke, especially when considering how much damage is done to the body of the players and what their average life span is. I just don't see any point whatsoever in complaining about the same consumerism of poker in a capitalist society unless you are knocking capitalism itself (by all means do so if that is what you are doing).
It has nothing to do with how it should be in your opinion, and everything to do with how people can find a way to make money. If it exists someone will try to make money from it, even if it means undermining the principles of the game. Even religion has become a brand (megachurches, t-shirts, bracelets, retreats, cds, books, etc.). Because poker exists and shows the possibility of appealing to people, bs marketers will fall out of the woodwork to capitalize on it by any means possible. And if that means manufacturing and playing up a certain image they will not hesitate to do it.
Even if poker players wanted to counteract the image there is not a whole lot they could do about it. The image does not have to be grounded in reality and producers and PR people would simply find sub-standard poker players willing to play along and play the part of a "pro" as the marketers want them to be seen. Again, look at rap. There are tons of great artists but if you talk about anything of substance that doesn't fit a certain image there is little chance of being signed to a major label. It doesn't actually matter how we do it, they don't even need us to create and sell an image, so coming on a poker forum and complaining about how poker is marketed as though the opinions of most players actually matters seems unproductive, especially when how poker is marketed is up to the players anymore than how rap is marketed is up to most rappers (or maybe it is just to let off steam or express a view in keeping with the title of the forum). If you are particularly talking to/about the players who do get involved with pushing this image, even if they were to cease to do so it wouldn't matter a whole lot. The industry would find a way to go on without them. In other words, poker has no chance of separating itself. People within poker can separate themselves, but as an entity that marketers will create and sell, poker is in a sense not in control of the way it is sold. Regardless of what players do if execs want to sell poker they will manufacture a false image and sell that as poker to mostly non-poker players. SO even if we all separate ourselves, there will still be a manufactured "poker" that is put out for consumption.
And also, the penguins apparently have something to do with it.

deep analysis ITT

Cool story bro.

Breaking news! Struggling NL50 player builds resentment towards the regs who own him day after day. More at eleven.

I'm able to separate the hype from the fact, myself. I don't base my feelings about poker on TV intros, cliches, what others think, and degenerates. I play to play, online or off.

OP this must be you..........
DONT FEED!

OP, you come off as fake and shallow in the OP. You exaggerate your accomplishments to make yourself out to be more impressive than you really are. Maybe you're part of the problem?

Mark