We've been hearing a lot of talk about real-time software, and it's really off-putting for people who play poker but want to do so honestly.

So what real-time software exists? And is the present/future of online poker (at all stakes) simply going to be a battle between who has the best setup (sort of like BTC mining) and no longer about who is actually good at poker.

It seems like no-one really wants to discuss it because "if it's out in the open then everyone will do it" but I feel that it's better that it is out in the open because lots of people are doing it and already enjoying a huge advantage.

It's reminiscent of PEDs in sport.

I have an insta software that works good. Had to program it for several years but I really recommend it. It is called grey matter. You should use it

sound like information that people are very keen to share on a public forum..

this is not how that works

Well there are some public forums outside of here where it exists! You don't have to look that hard.

It's definitely uncomfortable, but the reality is this is what many nameless, faceless people are doing right now.

I love it.

Yes, this is why humans regularly thrash programs like AlphaGo and Pluribus and why humans have been trouncing Chess engines like Stockfish and DeepBlue for decades. There is no doubt that we humans will also dominate AlphaZero, the Google/DeepMind AI application that was given the basic rules of chess and nothing more, no theory, no game history, no nothing, and then beat Stockfish 24 hours later.

Upgrade your gray matter, cause one day it may matter.

Why do you say that? It's pretty much how it works.

The biggest winners in online poker have so many programs running that they really don’t make many decisions at all. They kinda just wait for the program to tell them what to do and then they click the button. It’s kinda sad really but that’s the state of poker in 2019, and it will only get worse

There is a cheater software out of Russia that will scrape the screen, create a hand history, simulate an all in for the hand history to close it out (does this on every street), then pushes it to Poker Snowie, gets Poker Snowies advice on how the hand should have been played, then uses that advice to take an action through a bot. It does all of this in about 20-30 seconds.

It also does this on ICMizer as well for tournament play.

As far as I know it only works on Poker Stars.

Alternatively you can come up with your own strategy and make adjustments through study and not be a scumbag.

I agree. But if people are seeking edges all the time then software such as the one you've suggested will be used by many without concern for morality.

It definitely is. I don’t consider cheating an edge though. Having an edge from having a better understanding of the game than your opponents is a fair edge. Having a machine make your decisions is cheating. A lot of cheaters lost their bankrolls getting caught. I’m sure some of the more reputable poker rooms are making more efforts to find these cheaters. At some point hopefully it’s going to be a -EV decision to cheat.

Some people have already been accused of using precomputed solver outputs, right? I haven't played poker for a long time, and only dicked around a little bit with the free version of Pio out of interest, but building an extensive database of flop outputs does seem plenty feasible if you're a little smart about it. Storage is cheap, and there aren't all that many different flops effectively given that you can transpose the suits and stuff as long as it doesn't change the texture of the board. Then you can use the outputs during play, probably with the help of a screenscraper. For this reason I honestly also don't see how people can still play HU NLHE for significant amounts of cash on sites where security may be less than great. The game seems straight up solveable like this at a given stackdepth. But maybe I'm wrong.

This 100%

A friend of mine told me he was offered real time software. It's naive to think it doesn't exist.

Indeed. Below is a screengrab from a YouTube video of someone doing exactly that. He doesn't even hide his screenname, presumably because he can easily get hold of another fake ID if/when he gets banned. He just wants to sell the product, and I believe it's fairly well known on Russian forums.
This tool appears to import "solutions" from Pio and GTO+, and I think there is a similar tool that uses Snowie.
Apparently, you don't even need to do the computations yourself, because - for some games, like Spins and HUSNGs, where stacks are short - you can just buy them off the shelf and feed them into your assistance bot. Deep-stacked cash and full-ring tourneys would need much larger (more expensive) databases of solutions, but they will arrive eventually if they aren't already available.


P.S. Don't PM me for details on the software or the video link. It's not exactly hard to find, but the last thing I want to do is help potential cheats find the dream machine they are looking for.

Or that people are already using it?

Its a hard thing to police. Like at the highest level the best players in the world already spend thousands of hours learning from and memorising solver outputs and from a third person perspective there is no way of differentiating long term solver study with real-time solver assistance. I hate to be pessimistic about it and jump on the "online poker is dead" etc bandwagon but it's the harsh reality. So long as there are massive sums of money up for grabs there will be people fighting for every edge they can get, whether it's ethical or not.

Imo yes it would be naive to think people aren't using it.

The friend in question turned it down on account of his ethics.

Couldn't sites just study Pio/solvers and ban people who are playing too much like them. Could be argued even if player not cheating just studied solvers and have amazing memory still worth banning as bad for games.

A guy I did CFP for a little while ago was building something like this.
Idk if he ever finished, don’t talk anymore.
But it was just a screen scraper program that would scan board, potsize, stacksizes, etc and bring up PIO solutions.
I think he gave up and started botting but not positive.
Seemed like a cool guy at first and was very good at poker/theory, but was very geeedy.
I asked if he thought it was immoral and had some excuse how a lot of people are already doing it.

Pretty easy to find indeed but the price point is so low i highly doubt that you print money with that soft, I guess its the same type of market as Counter strike or Call of duty cheating, there is plenty cheats available via a simple research on the net some free some cheap but the best cheating softs are private and reserved to elite players / deep pockets

I guess there's a reason guys like Ike, Kanu, Ben86 etc don't play as much online anymore.

Could be those guys ^^ are some paragons of poker virtue or could be the assistance software they used got superseded by the new dream machines.

Like kind of weird how Doug Polk was the super invincible end boss of heads up before quickly launching a content career and quitting playing ?

As I type this I feel kind of bad because ofc Doug and others could be completely innocent and actual victims. But starting to look like rule bending is not just standard but essential