I started playing around with solvers a few weeks back and from what i've seen in general you can't have them open
while playing. Pio, snowie, etc shutdown or have a warning when you open pokerstars. But now you've also got Doug
Polks new plo matrix and mypokersolver.com that from what I can tell the sites can't do anything about unless they
start tracking web browsers / porn history? And I guess having something running on a mobile device is completely
hidden.

Pokerstars attitute in the past towards seating scripts and ghosting in MTTs has been "if we can't
enforce the rule / ban effectively, we will allow it." or something along these lines.

So, do web/mobile based advisors now fall under this category?

come on man give it a try and think about it... or read the tos

Hey man, ok I will give it a try!

Maybe my point isn't clear. What i'm saying is, should there be a rethink of the TOS or attitude towards live solvers.

For example, let's say I have the plo matrix open on my phone while i'm playing and it's giving me live advice. Isn't this basically the same as having a friend give me advice on the phone?

What if I am talking to my friend on skype, and my friend has mypokersolver.com open on his computer (what if I don't even know he has it open). Is this legal now? Since i'm not using the software, I'm just asking my friend for advice (and this is allowed).

If you say it’s fine what are you worried about?

You really need to be more clear on what you're asking or suggesting, as you're all over the place. Are you talking about Stars, or all sites? And are you asking what's allowed, or suggesting what should be? It would probably make for a clearer discussion if you were doing one or the other, rather than both.

Or you could just run the software on another laptop

It would be a windfall if I remained one of the few unbanned regs due to never watching porn Stars sometimes ask high stakes regs to submit videos of themselves playing, with webcams set up so that their vicinity and both hands be visible.

Be careful with mypokersolver specifically anyway.. their PLO solves aren't good as they used results from a preflop sim for postflop. Monkersolver (the thing they used) doesn't work like that and creates highly inaccurate postflop results.

Any multi street real time advisor based on monker results is kind of a scam right now because they all make the same mistake (When it comes to PLO at least idk about NLHE but I imagine its about the same)

Ok, no porn!

Hi Horse! What do you make of the gtometer? From what i've seen it's mostly green preflop and starts to turn red on the river, makes sense if your correct about the preflop sims.


Yes, sorry Bobo. I think the question here is: If sites can't effectively enforce a ban on these things, should they just allow them? (and my apologies if they are allowed, that's where the confusion comes in)

According to pokerstars ToS they are clearly against pokerstars ToS and cannot be used. You can read their ToS here. https://www.pokerstars.eu/poker/room/tos/

What isn’t so clear is if it is OK to still have these tools open in your web browser but not being used (say simply in a minimized browser) thus not affecting your play at the tables, or if it is strictly prohibited to even have these tools open despite the fact that they are not being used to assist with in-game decision-making. If it is the latter you must make sure to close all your tabs with these tools.

If you have any questions and are still unsure you can always ask pokerstars themselves and they tend to reply quickly.

Regarding other sites than pokerstars, it is quite unclear their policies regarding this matter.

Shows that they are aware of the problem I guess

But still I've seen some big differences in even flop strategies between preflop sims and seperate flop sims. So big that I would consider them basically useless.

Use at your own discretion I guess

The thing is that, when filming a session for Stars' game integrity team, one has to record the screen as well and use all the third party services and tools that one normally uses to aid the poker play while the client is open, otherwise the difference between their normal playing style and the one in the video will be noticeable and lead to trouble.

PS pro Geff Gross used RYE preflop afaik charts or idk for sure what program form RYE site where is written that it is forbiden to use while PS is open. On Twitch I sow that.

I think that the easy way to use solve while playing on PS is to use second computer, and if there is not video of you, PS cant do anything to stop and it.

They stopped that about 4/5 years ago.

Ask the site you play on and post their response, imo.

When you say 4/5 years ago, I assume you mean 80% of a year ago? But even that seems unlikely.

No, I don't mean that.

a) seating scripts don't apply to MTTs, obviously.
b) Ghosting has never been permitted by PokerStars. Some confusion arose many years ago when Lee Jones (I think it was while he was at Cake Poker? I do not recall exactly, but it was sometime between 2005 and 2010) published an article about "one player to a hand". Some players mistakenly understood that article as a comment that there was no such prohibition at PokerStars.

Disclaimer: I formerly worked in PokerStars' Game Security Team where I helped to create the current set of game rules.

You're amazing, I'm amazing, We're amazing. Great Job everyone!

What the point of that sarky comment Josems posts are one of the few worth reading around here in terms of industry knowledge and provide an informative balance to the constant anti stars dribble

He is saying that he worked for pokerstars security 4/5 years ago, and helped create rules to ban the use of seating scripts, and ghosting in MTTs.

Meanwhile people still ghost in MTTs and the only defense against seating scripts is to remove the option to choose your seat (something implemented after he left the team).

Great. That doesn't answer the question of what the point of the snarky comment was. It's not like he suggested the rules were (or weren't) effective.

I only included the disclaimer so that I didn't get accused of being some sort of secret shill. Normal people appreciate a bit of honesty and transparency.

I don't really disagree with any of that. Seat scripting wasn't - to my knowledge - an issue at PokerStars back when I left the Game Security team in 2012.

The point I was making was very simple: "Ghosting has never been permitted by PokerStars. Some confusion arose many years ago when Lee Jones (I think it was while he was at Cake Poker? I do not recall exactly, but it was sometime between 2005 and 2010) published an article about "one player to a hand". Some players mistakenly understood that article as a comment that there was no such prohibition at PokerStars."

Certainly people have tried to cheat at online poker, and it was prohibited at PokerStars a long time ago. It was not their policy to abolish their rule because they were incapable of enforcing it. That might now be the policy, I don't know- you would need to contact them.

Technically anything beyond simple RFI charts is considered against TOS. This includes stuff as basic as short stack shove ranges and as advanced as preflop solver sims. Of course there's no way for Stars to actually enforce the rule so everyone uses them while playing.