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Old 04-24-2015, 06:33 PM   #201
NVF
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

The programmer seems surprisingly uninformed about poker theory. Doug had a river spot where he was facing a 2x overbet on a 4 straight board and he commented that he liked the bot's bet sizing because he would rarely have a straight but the bot could have a lot more straights. The programmer responded in confusion asking why the bot wouldn't just bet smaller to try to get called if it had the straight, and Doug semi-seriously asked if he was leveling him.
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Old 04-24-2015, 06:34 PM   #202
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by MaxRhino View Post
So the stack sizes reset to 20k every hand?

What does everyone think about that? Doesn't really track to how a normal HUNL match would play obv. Does that matter though?
That's the same format that the computer competitions are played.

I guess with not re-setting, human edge would be bigger, because it is harder to train the bot to all kinds of different stack sizes too.
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Old 04-24-2015, 06:36 PM   #203
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by NVF View Post
The programmer seems surprisingly uninformed about poker theory. Doug had a river spot where he was facing a 2x overbet on a 4 straight board and he commented that he liked the bot's bet sizing because he would rarely have a straight but the bot could have a lot more straights. The programmer responded in confusion asking why the bot wouldn't just bet smaller to try to get called if it had the straight, and Doug semi-seriously asked if he was leveling him.
I thought the same thing.
"He has a stronger range so he wants the pot to be bigger"
"why?"
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Old 04-24-2015, 06:41 PM   #204
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by MaxRhino View Post
So the stack sizes reset to 20k every hand?

What does everyone think about that? Doesn't really track to how a normal HUNL match would play obv. Does that matter though?
I think it's good, sets a standard. Also it's better to do it this way is because one player is getting the reverse cards of the other player. So if they didn't reset the stack and say there was a huge cooler, one player might win 200bb and the other lose 500bb and that would somewhat defeat the whole purpose of trying to reduce/ eliminate variance.
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Old 04-24-2015, 06:45 PM   #205
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

this is super cool
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Old 04-24-2015, 06:47 PM   #206
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Doug had a river spot where he was facing a 2x overbet on a 4 straight board
doug referred to this as 1 to a straight. that's not common nomenclature is it? i thought i knew of all the nerdy terminology.
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Old 04-24-2015, 06:54 PM   #207
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

is it now streaming now?
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Old 04-24-2015, 06:59 PM   #208
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

First session (750 hands) already done, another one starting in like 30-60 min afaik.
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Old 04-24-2015, 06:59 PM   #209
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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is it now streaming now?
They are having a break, half an hour I think.
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Old 04-24-2015, 07:02 PM   #210
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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from what i was told they get a flat fee regardless of winning or losing.
yeah its an "appearance fee" because the casino wouldnt let them actually play 25/50. but there is some incentive pay out wise if you do better than others.
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Old 04-24-2015, 07:04 PM   #211
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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are they seriously playing for 80k hands? This is gonna take weeks at this pace
20,000 hands for each human. The bot plays the same hands four times.

Official site/blog: https://www.cs.cmu.edu/brains-vs-ai
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bot losing at 33bb/100.
I'm pretty surprised it's losing so heavily. I thought it would be a lot closer. I've not seen much of the streams. Has Doug noticed/mentioned any obvious imbalances/leaks in the bot's play?
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Old 04-24-2015, 07:06 PM   #212
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by doctor877 View Post
First session (750 hands) already done, another one starting in like 30-60 min afaik.
Quote:
Originally Posted by +VLFBERH+T View Post
They are having a break, half an hour I think.
thanks
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Old 04-24-2015, 07:19 PM   #213
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly View Post

I'm pretty surprised it's losing so heavily. I thought it would be a lot closer. I've not seen much of the streams. Has Doug noticed/mentioned any obvious imbalances/leaks in the bot's play?
Doug and Dong are both min bet leading 100% of flops OOP when defending pre vs a single raise. Doug has mentioned a few times that the computer is not coping well with it.
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Old 04-24-2015, 07:35 PM   #214
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

The programmer/host chatting with Doug is either extremely uninformed about poker or comes across as such because English is not his first language.

From watching Doug's hands, the bot appears very exploitable by even an average thinking player. You can see the the programmer was crushed when Doug rated that bot a 4 or 5 out of 10 if it were a human player sitting in on his regular tables (His default was not to accept that his bot was flawed but to note Doug's run-good and to imply that Doug must be playing with comparatively great players for his bot to rate so low*).

*In before DN would have trouble beating this bot online.
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Old 04-24-2015, 07:55 PM   #215
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

It's going to be very interesting in about 5 days or so to see how capable the computer is of learning, the first few days I don't expect the computer tp have much chance of winning. Only problem is that the computer may learn how to beat one strategy and then unable to adapt to something completely different the players start to do.

It's back on now!
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Old 04-24-2015, 07:55 PM   #216
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

the funny thing is, i feel like Doug was actually trying to be nice by saying the bot would be a 4 or 5 out of 10.
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Old 04-24-2015, 08:11 PM   #217
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Is the computer "learning" during this challenge at all?
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Old 04-24-2015, 08:16 PM   #218
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Doug wrecking this thing
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Old 04-24-2015, 08:18 PM   #219
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by The4thFilm View Post
Is the computer "learning" during this challenge at all?
Yes, that's kind of the point of this.

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HOW DOES CLAUDICO MAKE DECISIONS?
Claudico performs real-time reasoning during a hand. It also improves its strategy during the match by computing continuously on the Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center’s Blacklight computer. The research team built Claudico using algorithms that analyzed poker rules to devise a winning strategy. Claudico is not based on the experience of expert human players, so its strategy for playing can differ markedly from seasoned pros.
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Old 04-24-2015, 08:36 PM   #220
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

stream quality is ****ing awful
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Old 04-24-2015, 08:45 PM   #221
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Yes, that's kind of the point of this.
I meant learning as in interpreting winning lines from his opponents and copying them. What they're describing is just brute force which they would be doing anyway.
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Old 04-24-2015, 08:46 PM   #222
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

They are killing it, all 4 are plus right now
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Old 04-24-2015, 08:55 PM   #223
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

They must be getting paid a decent amount, but how could they afford to pay out that much?
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Old 04-24-2015, 08:57 PM   #224
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Microsoft is a sponsor. And the professor is from Carnegie Mellon so probably has some kind of research grant.
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Old 04-24-2015, 09:10 PM   #225
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Two weeks of this ****? Ridiculous. Wonder how long before they abort mission. Both the computer side and the players.
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