Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

News, Views, and Gossip For poker news, views and gossip.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-12-2015, 12:36 PM   #1551
gregorio
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 38,252
Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

No. But you can play HULHE here
gregorio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2015, 03:19 PM   #1552
+VLFBERH+T
grinder
 
+VLFBERH+T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: at the crossroads
Posts: 657
Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Quote:
Originally Posted by tenderloinig View Post
My question then is would Claudico be less effective on a slower computer, say a normal laptop. Does it need a bunch of cores to use the endgame solver?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Ganzfried View Post
Not gonna comment on the approach until after the competition concludes.
Hello Sam ... are you free to answer this question now: is it possible to let Claudico run on standard PC's / laptops ?
+VLFBERH+T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2015, 03:21 PM   #1553
+VLFBERH+T
grinder
 
+VLFBERH+T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: at the crossroads
Posts: 657
Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcb08 View Post
Doug, I couldn't tell because you had glasses on, but were your eyes rolling when you tried to explain the 99 vs A4 aipf play to the professor?
Since this hand comes up all the time here: does anyone have the link to it ?
+VLFBERH+T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2015, 03:27 PM   #1554
+VLFBERH+T
grinder
 
+VLFBERH+T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: at the crossroads
Posts: 657
Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregorio View Post
No. But you can play HULHE here
Cepheus is probably known to most of us itt, but interest in LHE is probably several magnitudes behind interest in NLHE for the huge majority here ... given Prof. Sandholms remarks in the Sept. CardPlayer interview, the question whether CMU is going to do something similar with Claudico than UoA did with Cepheus stands. Would be fantastic indeed, and hopefully someone from CMU notices the question and likes to answer ... thanks !!
+VLFBERH+T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2015, 03:54 PM   #1555
Gabethebabe
Malware Jedi
 
Gabethebabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In front of my monitor
Posts: 25,998
Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Quote:
Originally Posted by redfin View Post
I will take this bet.


Please escrow to my pokerstars account. If you happen to be right in 5 years I will send you $200 back. If the above terms are not met then it is a push. Please do not welch on this bet.
lol
Gabethebabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2015, 04:03 PM   #1556
aggo
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
aggo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: nyc
Posts: 10,422
Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

i guess the results are relatively good news.

they are at least 1 order of magnitude away from competing against top humans.

With any reasonable time limit imposed, that number is much larger.
aggo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2015, 07:36 PM   #1557
ArtyMcFly
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ArtyMcFly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Enchantment Under the Sea
Posts: 13,251
Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Quote:
Originally Posted by +VLFBERH+T View Post
Hello Sam ... are you free to answer this question now: is it possible to let Claudico run on standard PC's / laptops ?
Based on the fact that Microsoft sponsored the event, I fully expect Claudico's amazingly powerful and perceptive artificial intelligence will be built into the next incarnation of Windows.
Spoiler:
ArtyMcFly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2015, 04:26 AM   #1558
TimTamBiscuit
veteran
 
TimTamBiscuit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: cRUSHed!!!!!!
Posts: 2,134
Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenalineman View Post
Sorry if it was already asked, but is this bot available on the internet for anyone to play against it ?
No, but a fellow AI is available at Neo Poker Bot. Neo placed third in the Annual Computer Poker Competition in 2012 in the HUNLHE "Bankroll Instant Runoff" section but has not done as well as CMU's Tartanian7 in subsequent competitions.

Last edited by TimTamBiscuit; 05-13-2015 at 04:36 AM.
TimTamBiscuit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2015, 04:53 AM   #1559
PokerRon247
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
PokerRon247's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Running up a mountain
Posts: 11,192
Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTamBiscuit View Post
No, but a fellow AI is available at Neo Poker Bot. Neo placed third in the Annual Computer Poker Competition in 2012 in the HUNLHE "Bankroll Instant Runoff" section but has not done as well as CMU's Tartanian7 in subsequent competitions.
So rigged. I got it down to $200 in about 10 hands then it sucked out on me three times in a row and I rage-quit.
PokerRon247 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2015, 10:52 AM   #1560
mcb08
grinder
 
mcb08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Not where u think I am
Posts: 434
Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Quote:
Originally Posted by +VLFBERH+T View Post
Since this hand comes up all the time here: does anyone have the link to it ?
Doug would have to chime in with the exact link, as I only heard about it when he was speaking to the Professor. I believe that the crux of the hand was that Doug (99) 4-bet shoved after Claudico (A4o) made it 9K to go.
mcb08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2015, 11:30 AM   #1561
.isolated
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 21,341
Angry Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerRon247 View Post
So rigged. I got it down to $200 in about 10 hands then it sucked out on me three times in a row and I rage-quit.
Bot has some glaring leaks. In an unrelated note, after about 75 hands, I stacked him after I 3b w/95bb stacks w/AxJc and c/minr a AKT all club flop and he got ai w/Ax5c.
.isolated is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2015, 12:03 PM   #1562
boredoo
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 282
Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerRon247 View Post
So rigged. I got it down to $200 in about 10 hands then it sucked out on me three times in a row and I rage-quit.
confirmed bot is a fish
Spoiler:
boredoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2015, 12:06 PM   #1563
boredoo
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 282
Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Quote:
Originally Posted by .isolated View Post
Bot has some glaring leaks. In an unrelated note, after about 75 hands, I stacked him after I 3b w/95bb stacks w/AxJc and c/minr a AKT all club flop and he got ai w/Ax5c.
Bot seems to jam all pocket pairs in the few rounds I played. He stacked me when I got it in with QQ vs his 88 and bot rivered an 8.
boredoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2015, 02:42 PM   #1564
cheet
veteran
 
cheet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,498
Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

I'm going to be on Dave Tuchman's "Under The Gun" Twitch podcast on CrushLivePoker tonight at 8pm pst discussing the Brains vs A.I. challenge. If you have any questions, please get in there in chat and I'll try to answer them.
cheet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2015, 03:41 PM   #1565
lostinthesaus
old hand
 
lostinthesaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,520
Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Quote:
or years, I've hoped that bot developers would discover unknown (perhaps seemingly heretical) truths about poker.
I don't understand this at all. Bot's will shortly thereafter infest online poker at an exponential rate. WR will drop and so will growth of online poker as a business.

From a pure curiosity standpoint I can understand interest in the subject but coming from the Head of Poker Communications at the worlds largest poker site, it's a bit depressing.
lostinthesaus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2015, 04:27 PM   #1566
Gabethebabe
Malware Jedi
 
Gabethebabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In front of my monitor
Posts: 25,998
Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Quote:
Originally Posted by WCGRider View Post
Also to answer another question, Ive been asked pretty constantly if I am going to do this again. I am most likely not going to. It was way too hard for me and I took too much of a hit in what my expected value is elsewhere, not that 210/hr is bad, it just isnt really on the map with where I think I could most effeciently spend my time for how hard I had to work.
meh

You didn't do this for the money and you got more out of this than just 210/h (for yourself and the poker community)

The only thing I wonder is how long poker online will last now that bots are able to beat 99.99% of humans (and some more next year)
Gabethebabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2015, 09:07 PM   #1567
TimTamBiscuit
veteran
 
TimTamBiscuit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: cRUSHed!!!!!!
Posts: 2,134
Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Quote:
Originally Posted by .isolated View Post
Bot has some glaring leaks.
Yes, Bot has some glaring leaks. It is very easy to exploit. But it is fun to play!
TimTamBiscuit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2015, 07:28 AM   #1568
PeteBlow
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Guildford, UK
Posts: 12,868
Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Ty 'statistical' Stewart
PeteBlow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2015, 08:53 AM   #1569
+VLFBERH+T
grinder
 
+VLFBERH+T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: at the crossroads
Posts: 657
Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTamBiscuit View Post
Yes, Bot has some glaring leaks. It is very easy to exploit. But it is fun to play!
Neobot's interface already seems so much nicer than the one our four humans had to put up with. Microsoft couldn't even copy that ...?!
+VLFBERH+T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2015, 01:37 AM   #1570
TimTamBiscuit
veteran
 
TimTamBiscuit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: cRUSHed!!!!!!
Posts: 2,134
Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

From UCLA's stats website
Quote:
The one-tailed test provides more power to detect an effect in one direction by not testing the effect in the other direction.
...
So when is a one-tailed test appropriate? If you consider the consequences of missing an effect in the untested direction and conclude that they are negligible and in no way irresponsible or unethical, then you can proceed with a one-tailed test. For example, imagine again that you have developed a new drug. It is cheaper than the existing drug and, you believe, no less effective. In testing this drug, you are only interested in testing if it less effective than the existing drug. You do not care if it is significantly more effective. You only wish to show that it is not less effective. In this scenario, a one-tailed test would be appropriate.
TimTamBiscuit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2015, 02:13 AM   #1571
POW
banned
 
POW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 942
Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTamBiscuit View Post
No, but a fellow AI is available at Neo Poker Bot. Neo placed third in the Annual Computer Poker Competition in 2012 in the HUNLHE "Bankroll Instant Runoff" section but has not done as well as CMU's Tartanian7 in subsequent competitions.
Is Neo Poker Bot a good example of what to expect from run-ins with todays bots at HU deep SNG and cash tables? Or are they much better now?

Seems like quite an easily exploitable tight-passive bot, so don't mind playing these all day.
POW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2015, 04:37 AM   #1572
boredoo
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 282
Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

I thnk worrying over a one sided vs two sided t test is neither here nor there. A two sided test tests whether some value is different from zero in either direction and is almost universally used except in rare cases, particularly because it's more conservative. It's fine.

However, we know that if humans lost at 9BB/100 there's no way CMU would be going on about a statistical tie.

Also, it's not clear the assumptions of a t test are even met here. Each hand is not independent and identically distributed, particularly because humans play certainly depended on what came before. See Doug Polk getting tired.

Stats tests are useful but never perfect and not the be all and end all of anything. It's not clear they're appropriate here.

I think a Bayesian approach is better. For now, the evidence tells us humans are better. We can update our hypothesis when another challenge is run.m
boredoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2015, 12:30 AM   #1573
dstock
adept
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 855
Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Are we sure that the bot improved it's play, or learned? After all, the programmers got to watch the action, then tweak the computer after each session. Just doesn't seem like a "true test" after learning that.

Here's the bot, play the bot, live with the results. Seems like there was some leak fixing as it went on.
dstock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2015, 08:42 AM   #1574
tultfill
veteran
 
tultfill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: internet
Posts: 2,928
Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

I'm going to start using statistical tie all the time now, anytime I lose.
tultfill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2015, 09:10 AM   #1575
skario
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 86
Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Quote:
Originally Posted by tultfill View Post
I'm going to start using statistical tie all the time now, anytime I lose.
jeskola.net / poker (200bb) is another bot that has only pot size bets but is almost flawless otherwise. It is (or should be) virtually unbeatable. Claudico was probably (educated guess) >1000mb exploitable so there is a big difference.
skario is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive