Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick_AA
No one is debating clautico is pretty damn good .... And maybe world class. It's the gross manipulation by an ego driven self interested dip **** who thinks he's smarter than everyone else (indicated by the thinly veiled false narrative that any half way serious poker player debunked the first moment read). Can you say adelson?
I disagree. I think Claudico plays well in some spots but plays terribly in other commonly occurring spots. The mistake you are making is the logic fallacy of generalization. You wrongly assume Claudico is strong in ALL aspects of its play because you have observed some hands where it appears to have played well. You would need to systematically test Claudico across the many different "buckets" of similar types of hands: play in single raised pots, play in 3B pots, play in 4B pots, play in checked pots, play out-of-position, play in-position, short-stacked, deep-stacked, rainbow board textures, flushing textures, straightening textures, play where the board runout creates a river range containing too many bluffs to value, play where river range contains too few bluffs to value, play exploiting calling stations, play exploiting overly aggressive players, play exploiting Nits, etc, etc, etc.
In actuality, we have observed plenty of evidence to suggest Claudico is terrible at GTO in certain types of spots (= can be easily exploited) and reputedly fails in its design to algorithmically exploit the different types of players at all (it is trying to play GTO and generalise that to non-poker domains as opposed to being a great poker player rapidly observing and adapting and maximally exploiting its opponents):
One refutation hand suggesting Claudico is terrible at 4B/5B size pots pre-flop:
Doug's shoved 99 and AI folded A4o incorrectly getting way more pot odds than needed for an automatic call = Beginner mistake.
Which generalizes to a whole class of error = loss in similar spots.
Claudico also had what is almost certainly an error with 11x overbets on rivers risking far too much into little pots where typically the play had checked until the river then Claudico irrationally shoves. Bluffs should be big enough to do the job and no bigger due to risk/reward ratio. Ergo there should be a range of betsizes for different hand ranges in that kind of spot for GTO strategy. Claudico appears to have overdone the bet-size abstraction and did not show anywhere near the betsize variation we theoretically expect in a GTO strategy.
Also, Claudico didn't handle min-donks well: again a beginner error constantly exploited by the Humans in almost every hand.
Claudico made very bad bluffs on rivers in certain spots that Doug and Bjorn set the bot up for and snap called over and over and over...
There are probably lots and lots of other Claudico weaknesses, too. For example, its inability to maximise winnings against weak players evident in the bot vs bot challenge. Again any low stakes human player is very good at maximising winnings versus weak players so that is a major skill deficit. (Most low stakes players arguably can't win unless they exploit the weak players in fact so Claudico would have a real problem in low stakes games failing to maximize winnings against the fish while getting killed by the rake).
I felt that Doug in particular stopped bothering to play seriously at about halfway so I have little doubt that on his A-game for the whole challenge he could have significantly increased his winrate. Whether he was fatigued or didn't want to publicly let his human competitors in high stakes HU know too much I don't know. Only Bjorn seemed to keep the pedal down all the way through the challenge. And while Cheet lost badly early on he was winning at 21bb/100 over the last half as he dialled in exploiting the bot's weaknesses so it would be interesting if he would post in the thread what he thinks are Claudico's key weaknesses.
The Humans have a very real incentive not to explain to the AI team all of the AI's errors! But just listing the ones they talked about means Claudico has serious weaknesses.
Last edited by TimTamBiscuit; 05-08-2015 at 09:52 PM.