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Old 05-01-2015, 04:09 AM   #951
boredoo
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by dodgybob View Post
strong understanding of sample size
The research design accounts for sample size through mirroring the hands.
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Old 05-01-2015, 04:09 AM   #952
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by dodgybob View Post
strong understanding of sample size
from his chat with Donger Doug as well not happy with Cheets play in some spots.

off corse if we had somthing like this we would knew more info ->
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Originally Posted by dodgybob View Post
It would be really interesting to see how the bot would perform playing against itself in each matchup.

e.g. Doug is up $450k vs Claudico
Claudico-DougBot would be up $250k playing vs Claudico

Last edited by Deduction; 05-01-2015 at 04:15 AM.
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Old 05-01-2015, 05:09 AM   #953
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by hoopaloopa View Post
All the random questions from curious casino guests are gold on Dan Polk's stream.
Not as good as Doug Kates though

As it is, I would not recommend anyone to turn into a pro online poker payer without a good backup for that profession. Bots this good will attract more and more attention and their abuse will increase for as long it is profitable
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Old 05-01-2015, 05:32 AM   #954
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by Kirbynator View Post
bot jams 15k into 10k on AsKs6d 5d 7 (it has 57ss)
What the hack, howd you know what bot has
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Old 05-01-2015, 06:17 AM   #955
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by boredoo View Post
The research design accounts for sample size through mirroring the hands.
It accounts for it less than you'd think. Would really like to see some figures though on exactly how the mirrored hands affects the variance.

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Originally Posted by Xvliki View Post
What the hack, howd you know what bot has
Because it's duplicate poker, so every hand that the bot has vs Doug, Jason has that same hand vs the bot, on the same runout.
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Old 05-01-2015, 06:18 AM   #956
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by Xvliki View Post
What the hack, howd you know what bot has
not sure if serious, he checks the mirror hand on the other stream.

hand 157 on dougs stream is x,x and bot is y,y

hand 157 on jasons stream is y,y and bot is x,x
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Old 05-01-2015, 06:22 AM   #957
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Tapping the tank is one of the worst things to happen to poker. Obviously inevitable though.

#yeahimmad
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Old 05-01-2015, 09:51 AM   #958
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Claudico can be beaten by 3 humans in world? from yesterday what I see Jason Les cant beat it even then Doug is down vs bot.
I ran pretty bad the first half of the challenge or so in multiple ways. That being said, I was also not playing optimally vs this opponent and have had to do some studying to figure things out, unfortunately a little lagged behind the others. At this point, I feel very confident about my game and believe I'm a winner vs the bot and expect to be in the positive by end
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Old 05-01-2015, 09:55 AM   #959
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

I think I saw that you guys get the hand histories at the end of the day, but do you get them in a format that allows you to analyse them properly by importing into PT4/HM2 or whatever? Or do you just get the raw hhs and have to trawl through them?

If it's the latter, how much of a disadvantage do you think it is to not have a HUD and a way of properly analysing the play?
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Old 05-01-2015, 10:37 AM   #960
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by cheet View Post
I ran pretty bad the first half of the challenge or so in multiple ways. That being said, I was also not playing optimally vs this opponent and have had to do some studying to figure things out, unfortunately a little lagged behind the others. At this point, I feel very confident about my game and believe I'm a winner vs the bot and expect to be in the positive by end

I hope you do well as you seem very committed to taking the challenge seriously.
If I may ask you two questions:

Did you guys not get together beforehand and decide on an optimal strategy that you thought would work against this AI? (seems that Dong and Doug were playing one uniform strategy while you and Bjorn were not).

Do you guys get together each night to discuss what is working and not? (If so, have you decided to adopt what the so far big "winning" players are doing or are you committed to an approach you think is best long-term?)
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Old 05-01-2015, 10:40 AM   #961
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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I feel very confident about my game and believe I'm a winner vs the bot and expect to be in the positive by end
That will be one of biggest intrigue in remaining time! Go Humans!
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Old 05-01-2015, 11:44 AM   #962
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Dong and Doug seem to be a poker team, and by Doug's comments it seems he is not discussing strategy in detail with the others like he's doing with Dong. (MBN Dong . Would be interested to know if anyone knows to the contrary.

Also, I find it interesting they were able to convince these guys to commit to such a large endeavor. They are putting in a ton of hours, opening up their thought process at least to some degree, and for relatively little monetary reward. Imagine the opportunity cost in dollar terms for 6 weeks of not playing at the stakes they do for real money.

With that said, there is value in the exposure, and Doug seems to be getting the highest return in that regard. I think there's a strong chance he becomes much more public after this challenge, especially if he crushes through to the end.
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Old 05-01-2015, 11:56 AM   #963
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Doug coached Dong, right? I thought general consensus was that Doug is at least partially responsible for the framework of Dong's game? (isn't that what we mean by 'evil empire'?)
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Old 05-01-2015, 12:03 PM   #964
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Doug coached Dong, right? I thought general consensus was that Doug is at least partially responsible for the framework of Dong's game? (isn't that what we mean by 'evil empire'?)
Yes true. I was more curious about whether the collaboration went further than Doug and Dong to the rest of the human team. It does not appear that way.
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Old 05-01-2015, 12:04 PM   #965
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by Nick_AA View Post
Dong and Doug seem to be a poker team, and by Doug's comments it seems he is not discussing strategy in detail with the others like he's doing with Dong. (MBN Dong . Would be interested to know if anyone knows to the contrary.

Also, I find it interesting they were able to convince these guys to commit to such a large endeavor. They are putting in a ton of hours, opening up their thought process at least to some degree, and for relatively little monetary reward. Imagine the opportunity cost in dollar terms for 6 weeks of not playing at the stakes they do for real money.

With that said, there is value in the exposure, and Doug seems to be getting the highest return in that regard. I think there's a strong chance he becomes much more public after this challenge, especially if he crushes through to the end.
He is getting 10K for two weeks guaranteed plus a portion related to his winnings of 60K so likely at least 15K.

$25K+ guaranteed plus the ability to learn more about AI, improve your profile, and make valuable contacts seems like great compensation considering that Doug has really rehabbed/burnished his reputation on the stream and all without risking the loss of a single dollar at the tables.
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Old 05-01-2015, 12:29 PM   #966
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by restorativejustice View Post
He is getting 10K for two weeks guaranteed plus a portion related to his winnings of 60K so likely at least 15K.

$25K+ guaranteed plus the ability to learn more about AI, improve your profile, and make valuable contacts seems like great compensation considering that Doug has really rehabbed/burnished his reputation on the stream and all without risking the loss of a single dollar at the tables.

Obviously if you put it in normal person typical world terms its great comp....these are not normal people with normal comp.
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Old 05-01-2015, 12:35 PM   #967
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Well the stream is really boring of late. No sound on Polk's stream and they're not out on the casino floor anymore?
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Old 05-01-2015, 12:37 PM   #968
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Interesting discussion of gto warcraft 3 strategy. I hope wcg isn't giving too much away to make games unbeatable.
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Old 05-01-2015, 01:19 PM   #969
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Last time i watched a wc3 (some big final years ago) match it was basically WoW but with lesser keys to mash. Blademaster op.
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Old 05-01-2015, 01:37 PM   #970
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by Nick_AA View Post
Dong and Doug seem to be a poker team, and by Doug's comments it seems he is not discussing strategy in detail with the others like he's doing with Dong. (MBN Dong . Would be interested to know if anyone knows to the contrary.

Also, I find it interesting they were able to convince these guys to commit to such a large endeavor. They are putting in a ton of hours, opening up their thought process at least to some degree, and for relatively little monetary reward. Imagine the opportunity cost in dollar terms for 6 weeks of not playing at the stakes they do for real money.

With that said, there is value in the exposure, and Doug seems to be getting the highest return in that regard. I think there's a strong chance he becomes much more public after this challenge, especially if he crushes through to the end.
I think they were very confident to beat the bot so basically it's 25k "guaranteed" for 2 weeks of full-time work. Add to that the public exposure which is worth a fair amount and not just in $ value, along with learning more from AI etc...

It's not like these guys are getting a ****ton of HU action and there isn't a trillion games running at high-stakes. 25k "guaranteed" + the rest (which may be worth more) for 2 weeks of work is not that little even for these guys. It's not unreasonable to think they might get some TV apperance or magasine coverage or whatever for "the team that beat a poker supercomputer". It can open up some interesting things for them.
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Old 05-01-2015, 02:02 PM   #971
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by Dr.FatCat View Post
I think they were very confident to beat the bot so basically it's 25k "guaranteed" for 2 weeks of full-time work. Add to that the public exposure which is worth a fair amount and not just in $ value, along with learning more from AI etc...

It's not like these guys are getting a ****ton of HU action and there isn't a trillion games running at high-stakes. 25k "guaranteed" + the rest (which may be worth more) for 2 weeks of work is not that little even for these guys. It's not unreasonable to think they might get some TV apperance or magasine coverage or whatever for "the team that beat a poker supercomputer". It can open up some interesting things for them.
I'm not disagreeing, and don't blame them for seeing the value. My point is it's just really not that much money for the commitment to them (something like 12 hours a day of forced grinding for 2 weeks against a computer). It's amusing because it's putting them in an environment where it's like they have a demanding job in the real world. the responsibility of long hours, little/no free time, told what to do when to do....all the things poker players avoid like the plague it seems.

Maybe the intangible value really is massive - do you guys think pretty much all other top pros would do this if given the opportunity? I guess once they had Doug locked in I'm sure everyone else would want to follow.
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Old 05-01-2015, 02:06 PM   #972
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

I was under the impression Bjorn scammed a bunch of people. Is he just let back into the poker community with no problems or did he apologize / make it right? Links please.
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Old 05-01-2015, 02:17 PM   #973
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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I was under the impression Bjorn scammed a bunch of people. Is he just let back into the poker community with no problems or did he apologize / make it right? Links please.
?? Why? Start your own thread if you have something to say? Is this really necessary here?
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Old 05-01-2015, 02:48 PM   #974
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

jason up 90 doug down 70 this session. some big variance going the other way.

Bot has also not been overbetting much at all today.
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Old 05-01-2015, 02:56 PM   #975
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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?? Why? Start your own thread if you have something to say? Is this really necessary here?
It depends - is it true?
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