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Old 04-28-2015, 11:28 PM   #751
feedmykids2
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

If there were 4 diamonds on the board then betting the low end of a 4 card straight with no diamond is not a v-bet
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Old 04-28-2015, 11:33 PM   #752
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

well, doug said it was a v-bet
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Old 04-28-2015, 11:58 PM   #753
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Quote:
Originally Posted by mack's View Post
Doug just rated claudico 9/10 related to All regs.

GG all the micro players that keep saying this bot sucks

[/U]
What would be the value of this bot if it were able to work on stars?
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Old 04-29-2015, 12:01 AM   #754
RalphWaldoEmerson
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

^I thought he rated it a 4/5 at one point...maybe that was day 1, before the engineers/whoever made adjustments?
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Old 04-29-2015, 12:15 AM   #755
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by RalphWaldoEmerson View Post
^I thought he rated it a 4/5 at one point...maybe that was day 1, before the engineers/whoever made adjustments?
he said it was a 4/5 compared to 25/50 regs
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Old 04-29-2015, 12:31 AM   #756
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Do you think this experience will improve the ability to identify future bots?
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Old 04-29-2015, 12:48 AM   #757
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by Invertible View Post
he said it was a 4/5 compared to 25/50 regs
gotcha, ty
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Old 04-29-2015, 12:48 AM   #758
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by noncarborundum View Post
Do you think this experience will improve the ability to identify future bots?
No human can copy this bots style effectively. If this bot was playing I believe we could identify it pretty easily
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Old 04-29-2015, 01:15 AM   #759
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Jason (or any of the guys) how much work are the 4 of you doing on this in between sessions? Can you talk about any "game plan" you guys had going into this?
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Old 04-29-2015, 01:18 AM   #760
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

wow 9/10 is a huge improvement/"victory" for the bot creators. I see some misintereprations are flying around, Doug said after the first day that he rated the bot 4-5 out of 10. not 4 out of 5 which made the professor real butthurt, but now its 9/10 appearantly.



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Originally Posted by mack's View Post
Doug just rated claudico 9/10 related to All regs.

GG all the micro players that keep saying this bot sucks

im talking about you tultfill
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Old 04-29-2015, 01:23 AM   #761
drezyna
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Is team brains really 700k up or is it error?
Last time i checked Jason L. was 200k down.
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Old 04-29-2015, 01:42 AM   #762
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

i think its gonna be updated to about +220K for humans?
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Old 04-29-2015, 03:13 AM   #763
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

pretty insane how fast the bot is improving. its like the hulk getting stronger fast when you hurt it. as a puny human i wouldnt have thought these 'couple of hands' of trillions hands its played already would make such a difference.

the humans are plugging its leaks basically.
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Old 04-29-2015, 03:22 AM   #764
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

im not sure thats how the bot works
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Old 04-29-2015, 03:30 AM   #765
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

http://www.twitch.tv/claudico_extra

is that a displaying error for jason? how the **** did he win 40 buyins since I last checked?
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Old 04-29-2015, 03:42 AM   #766
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

His last session was +30k, don't know exactly what his total was to start of the session, maybe they just added it to and assigned him the positive score, so Jason should be at -170k now(?) Or it's just completely fekked. Anyways, unfortunately no 400k session for him

Last edited by psloth; 04-29-2015 at 04:03 AM.
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Old 04-29-2015, 04:17 AM   #767
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Quote:
Originally Posted by sc000t View Post
Jason (or any of the guys) how much work are the 4 of you doing on this in between sessions? Can you talk about any "game plan" you guys had going into this?
We have been able to do work for a couple hours most nights but unfortunately have to cut it short sometimes as we are only human and do need some sleep. Can't say anything about game plans we had going into this, sorry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MakeBelieve View Post
pretty insane how fast the bot is improving. its like the hulk getting stronger fast when you hurt it. as a puny human i wouldnt have thought these 'couple of hands' of trillions hands its played already would make such a difference.

the humans are plugging its leaks basically.
This is not how it's working
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Old 04-29-2015, 04:18 AM   #768
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

And yeah the scoreboard is wrong, we are like +260 total I think.
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Old 04-29-2015, 05:04 AM   #769
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by Wasp View Post
I get it, it is as simple as 2+2, and likely I missed some factor, and they are just exploiting the bot or they have a better concept to call on river, but if this is not the case this can help a little (to call more vs shove), and I would be happy then (just like as they had accepted my offering for making daily range analytics report against the bot)
They certainly know what their own ranges look like, and which parts of it they need to defend vs shoves, don't worry about that.

Never mind, have you done those daily range reports ? If so, do you care to explain what exactly you are doing and to publish results here, any interesting finds so far ?
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Old 04-29-2015, 05:23 AM   #770
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Quote:
Originally Posted by feedmykids2 View Post
If there were 4 diamonds on the board then betting the low end of a 4 card straight with no diamond is not a v-bet
Clear valuebet bud, u might find it too thin but it is not a bluff.
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Old 04-29-2015, 05:31 AM   #771
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

bot has an unfair advantage by having the ability of analyze every hand regardless there was or wasnt a showdown, a normal player could pick up this many tells/reads by 100's of tousands of hands this bot has done in 7000 hands/player. i think.

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Originally Posted by billburr View Post
has there been any pre flop all ins? whats the weakest hand the bot showed up with during all the preflop all ins?
I remember 1 flip so far: JJ v AK
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Old 04-29-2015, 05:36 AM   #772
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Quote:
Originally Posted by enzet View Post
bot has an unfair advantage by having the ability of analyze every hand regardless there was or wasnt a showdown, a normal player could pick up this many tells/reads by 100's of tousands of hands this bot has done in 7000 hands/player. i think.
AI team gets all the hands after the session, humans as well, no ? Where is the advantage for the AI team ?
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Old 04-29-2015, 05:44 AM   #773
enzet
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Quote:
Originally Posted by +VLFBERH+T View Post
AI team gets all the hands after the session, humans as well, no ? Where is the advantage for the AI team ?
i don't know, its analizing real time as well, not? meanwhile... it can do all the work 24/7 what human brain cannot. there is not enough time between sessions/sleep to really consider the conditions fifty-fifty. 3000 hands is a ton to do the work hand by hand.
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Old 04-29-2015, 05:46 AM   #774
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keruli View Post
ok, thanks. but then what's the point of having a limping range?

maybe the raise range is (at least slightly) polarized, and the limping range relatively condensed? would that make sense?

also, does 100% minleading mean one should flat less pre? because you're effectively investing the call+1bb instead of just the call




anyway, this whole thing is really fun and interesting. railing with the multitwitch is awesome. (pro tip: when doug's mic goes robot/load, you can mute it and switch to dong's mic, which will be recording what doug says)

The humans obviously disagree with the bot about having a limping range at all. Most likely the bot can have 100% of hands when both limping and 2.5x pre. It may be weighted such that worse hands are limped more often than better ones but just because the bot limped you can't rule a hand out. Notice the bot limp reraises fairly often indicating it does limp premium hands for balance. The humans must disagree with the bot's strategy as they are exploiting it everytime it limps with a 4x raise with any 2 (usually followed by the good ol minbet).

Also, the min leading strategy really has nothing to do with preflop vpip. They call the bb because it is better than folding or 3bet independently of the strategy they choose after seeing the flop fall. I can speculate as to a few of the initial reasons they chose the minlead strategy and why they continue to employ it (besides the fact it seems to be working and possibly 'confusing' the bot). If you were to choose this minlead strategy vs most good human opponents they would quickly come back at you with their maximally exploitative strategy; they would see you are making suboptimal plays and most likely try to punish it as best they can. In position this would consist of raising that minlead a ton. The bot however does not adjust to its opponent in the same way a human does. It chooses the most balanced GTO line it can at all times. A minlead is not too far from a check in terms of ev especially as the pot to minbet ratio increases (minbet is closer to a check in a 4bet pot than a single raised pot). A check is the standard approach to most hands oop without the initiative so it's not a huge Variation from the human player's normal strategy. The bot may have trouble with this size for technical reasons. If the bot treats the bet much differently than a check it could lead to a situation where the bot is flatting minbets in spots where it would be betting larger than min when checked to. In this scenario the human players are giving up very little to reduce the bot's average pot size in position.

The minbet style also could have just been an experiment and the players liked the way the bot responded and find it easier to play/read with these lines and are therefore sticking with it until Claudico gives them reason to do otherwise..
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Old 04-29-2015, 05:52 AM   #775
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

this limping/opening mixed strategy is a thing that just a bot can balance reaaaaly well.
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