WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot - Page 25 - Poker News

Also didn't doug say that although they can't use any computer assistance during the match, at the end of each day the full hhs are given to them to do as they please with whatever software in preparation for the next day?

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04-27-2015 , 04:04 PM

#602

Clayton

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 32,226

Quote:

Originally Posted by SicilianTaimanov

100% is exploitable.

calling 8x on 88555 for literally any sized bet (and situations similar to it) is more exploitable

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04-27-2015 , 04:08 PM

#603

+VLFBERH+T

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 657

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clayton

calling 8x on 88555 for literally any sized bet (and situations similar to it) is more exploitable

As watergun7 pointed out just above: calling sometimes with an 8 doesn't mean always calling with an 8. But always folding is clearly exploitable.

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04-27-2015 , 04:12 PM

#604

Clayton

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 32,226

Quote:

Originally Posted by +VLFBERH+T

As watergun7 pointed out just above: calling sometimes with an 8 doesn't mean always calling with an 8. But always folding is clearly exploitable.

i'm not disputing that. im saying that whatever percentage you want to assign to claudico's "sometimes" for calling in these spots, i think its too high, and the amount of chips it is losing on these mistakes is massive.

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04-27-2015 , 04:17 PM

#605

Clayton

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 32,226

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Jacob

let me clarify my question. it seems like a lot of you are saying something like: well you have to call here because top two pair is such a strong hand and if you just fold top two pair when P pushes you will get run over. so in other words you are using the hand strength here as a way to control how often we call when P pushes the river. i.e. call with AK or better, that way we call him x% of the time, if we call less than x% P will abuse us.

i know you don't think you are doing this but i'm pretty sure you are. because if we had KQ i don't think you would all say oh easy call P is bluffing. and yet most of you would agree that the vast majority of the time, P has either less than KQ or greater than AK.

it seems to me that this is sort of a game-theoretic approach. i.e. x% is optimal for calling P river push, and so i will call with AK or better to get to that x%. the problem of course is every scenario is different. THIS is the kind of thinking that makes P so successful, not the guys who are saying to fold. because when you think like this you are giving up already. you are not even trying to read him. you are just saying, my hand falls into the x% when i should call, i hope i win. he knows that you do this.

and that's why the x% is not going to work out for you. it's gonna seem like you're getting unlucky but you're not. it is by design that a good chunk of your x% calls will be against the nuts.

this is sorta how i feel about the bot's calling in these river overbet spots

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04-27-2015 , 04:20 PM

#606

icoon

adept

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 744

Im enjoying this a lot.

Tnx for doing this humans and robot!

Would be cool to see winrates per position at the end. So that we can see if Humans still have an edge withouth the minlead thing

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04-27-2015 , 04:49 PM

#607

sirin

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,995

Are the streams archived anywhere or can you only watch it live?

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04-27-2015 , 04:57 PM

#608

Chabra

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 403

they're archived. on twitch just go to the profile of the channel you want to see, and click on "past broadcasts." For example here are the archived vids of WCGRider's: http://www.twitch.tv/claudico_vs_dou...ast_broadcasts

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04-27-2015 , 04:58 PM

#609

sirin

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,995

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chabra

Great, thanks for the post!

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04-27-2015 , 05:00 PM

#610

watergun7

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 2,796

Quote:

Originally Posted by +VLFBERH+T

Exactly.

Edit: I misread your post ... of course you can not just fold unless you have the nuts yourself, duh

This is not true. When it's super deep it's possible that you can only call with the nuts in some situations depending on ranges.

If bb has enough 5x on 88555 such that it's suicidal to bluff all in 200bb e.g., and wcg is exploitatively overbet shoving.

But anyway it can't be a big mistake either way since this situation happens so rarely.

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04-27-2015 , 05:02 PM

#611

Masq

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 15,008

How were the hands generated for the sample? Was it done randomly or have they set up certain 'trap' hands to see what happens? Thinking about quads hand doug had today and whether that was something the developers threw into the mix as a test. I'm aware setups / coolers will happen over a sample of 80k hands, just wondered whether they've put some bonus ones in.

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04-27-2015 , 05:03 PM

#612

watergun7

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 2,796

Quote:

Originally Posted by icoon

Im enjoying this a lot.

Tnx for doing this humans and robot!

Would be cool to see winrates per position at the end. So that we can see if Humans still have an edge withouth the minlead thing

Well it would be a huge surprise if humans aren't winning ip so not too sure what conclusions we can extrapolate for the minlead strategy.

It would be good if they played a decent sample without minlead to compare with the hhs when they do lead.

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04-27-2015 , 05:19 PM

#613

icoon

adept

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 744

You can compare the ip winrate with ip winrate assuming no edge (im sure some people here wil have good estimate of gto ip and oop winrate )

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04-27-2015 , 05:20 PM

#614

the_main

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 8,601

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masq

Anything other than a RNG would be ridiculous.

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04-27-2015 , 05:22 PM

#615

Two SHAE

Decentralized Financier

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 2,242

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaby

if you are pandorasbux, does that mean you're gonna start playing me at 25/50 again?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clayton

i dont think cheet is pandorasbux, i think pandorasbux had his identity outed during last WSOP during a HU event or something

Right. Pandorasbux is fingersmith on 2p2.

Question: was Bjorn part of the evil empire pre ban? Or added because they felt bad about jmo outing him?

This challenge is really cool. Will be interesting to see the final result-- go humans!

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04-27-2015 , 05:39 PM

#616

what is check

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 373

cheet just had a hand where he had QJ on KTXcc 3c As, bot check/jammed river. cheet then attempted to perform a magic trick that would turn the 3c into 3d. The magic trick was unsuccesful and he folded. One would assume he has more success with his magic tricks on untracked euro sites.

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04-27-2015 , 05:51 PM

#617

HamSellerSamHeller

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 197

r u trying to be funny bro

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04-27-2015 , 06:00 PM

#618

what is check

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 373

no, that is an accurate retelling of events.

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04-27-2015 , 06:06 PM

#619

tenderloinig

adept

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 803

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clayton

2h Td 5d As 7x

Bot TT, Bjorn A2
r/c, lead/raise/call (i think?), k/b/r/c, k/overbet/tankfold (wp!)

Dong TT, Bot A2
r/c, Bot c/r flop dong call, turn bet call, river bot bets 1/10 pot and calls the overbet shove

HUMANITY

Why do you think the bot has found 1/10th pot more profitable in it's experience here than check?

Gains money vs hands that would otherwise check behind while still getting just as much vs the rest because it's opponents raise just about the same range they bet when checked to and bluff just about the same vs 1/10th pot as they do when checked to? just a wild guess at one facet of the logic behind this bet.

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04-27-2015 , 06:06 PM

#620

The4thFilm

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 13,472

bot getting massacred today

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04-27-2015 , 06:13 PM

#621

tenderloinig

adept

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 803

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clayton

wow

cheet 5bets AKo for 6500ish, bot 4bet/calls the 98ss

flop comes JTx two hearts, cheet jams for 1psb, bot folds the OESD

You make 7,112 getting it on the flop. 6500 when he folds flop. Technically i guess you wanna get it in but ill take less to not have to sweat it!

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04-27-2015 , 06:15 PM

#622

feedmykids2

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 4,527

Some girl flirting with WCG while he plays lol

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04-27-2015 , 06:19 PM

#623

vrael111

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 2,954

^ that girl responding "exactly" to everything he says and obv having no idea is awesome

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04-27-2015 , 06:21 PM

#624

feedmykids2

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 4,527

Quote:

Originally Posted by vrael111

^ that girl responding "exactly" to everything he says and obv having no idea is awesome

She just got her masters yesterday!

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04-27-2015 , 06:29 PM

#625

what is check

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 373

in hand 222, jason had Ad9d on K9X56r board. don't remember exact action but bot shoved for pot on river. jason tanked for awhile, then decided he would have better hands in his range to bluffcatch with and folded. bot had AT.
in the reverse situation, doug raised AT pre, bot did one of those big 7x 3b, doug 4b, bot folded.

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