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Old 04-27-2015, 04:02 PM   #601
watergun7
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Also didn't doug say that although they can't use any computer assistance during the match, at the end of each day the full hhs are given to them to do as they please with whatever software in preparation for the next day?
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Old 04-27-2015, 04:04 PM   #602
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by SicilianTaimanov View Post
100% is exploitable.
calling 8x on 88555 for literally any sized bet (and situations similar to it) is more exploitable
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Old 04-27-2015, 04:08 PM   #603
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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calling 8x on 88555 for literally any sized bet (and situations similar to it) is more exploitable
As watergun7 pointed out just above: calling sometimes with an 8 doesn't mean always calling with an 8. But always folding is clearly exploitable.
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Old 04-27-2015, 04:12 PM   #604
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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As watergun7 pointed out just above: calling sometimes with an 8 doesn't mean always calling with an 8. But always folding is clearly exploitable.
i'm not disputing that. im saying that whatever percentage you want to assign to claudico's "sometimes" for calling in these spots, i think its too high, and the amount of chips it is losing on these mistakes is massive.
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Old 04-27-2015, 04:17 PM   #605
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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let me clarify my question. it seems like a lot of you are saying something like: well you have to call here because top two pair is such a strong hand and if you just fold top two pair when P pushes you will get run over. so in other words you are using the hand strength here as a way to control how often we call when P pushes the river. i.e. call with AK or better, that way we call him x% of the time, if we call less than x% P will abuse us.

i know you don't think you are doing this but i'm pretty sure you are. because if we had KQ i don't think you would all say oh easy call P is bluffing. and yet most of you would agree that the vast majority of the time, P has either less than KQ or greater than AK.

it seems to me that this is sort of a game-theoretic approach. i.e. x% is optimal for calling P river push, and so i will call with AK or better to get to that x%. the problem of course is every scenario is different. THIS is the kind of thinking that makes P so successful, not the guys who are saying to fold. because when you think like this you are giving up already. you are not even trying to read him. you are just saying, my hand falls into the x% when i should call, i hope i win. he knows that you do this.

and that's why the x% is not going to work out for you. it's gonna seem like you're getting unlucky but you're not. it is by design that a good chunk of your x% calls will be against the nuts.
this is sorta how i feel about the bot's calling in these river overbet spots
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Old 04-27-2015, 04:20 PM   #606
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Im enjoying this a lot.

Tnx for doing this humans and robot!

Would be cool to see winrates per position at the end. So that we can see if Humans still have an edge withouth the minlead thing
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Old 04-27-2015, 04:49 PM   #607
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Are the streams archived anywhere or can you only watch it live?
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Old 04-27-2015, 04:57 PM   #608
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

they're archived. on twitch just go to the profile of the channel you want to see, and click on "past broadcasts." For example here are the archived vids of WCGRider's: http://www.twitch.tv/claudico_vs_dou...ast_broadcasts
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Old 04-27-2015, 04:58 PM   #609
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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they're archived. on twitch just go to the profile of the channel you want to see, and click on "past broadcasts." For example here are the archived vids of WCGRider's: http://www.twitch.tv/claudico_vs_dou...ast_broadcasts
Great, thanks for the post!
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Old 04-27-2015, 05:00 PM   #610
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by +VLFBERH+T View Post
Exactly.

Edit: I misread your post ... of course you can not just fold unless you have the nuts yourself, duh
This is not true. When it's super deep it's possible that you can only call with the nuts in some situations depending on ranges.

If bb has enough 5x on 88555 such that it's suicidal to bluff all in 200bb e.g., and wcg is exploitatively overbet shoving.

But anyway it can't be a big mistake either way since this situation happens so rarely.
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Old 04-27-2015, 05:02 PM   #611
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

How were the hands generated for the sample? Was it done randomly or have they set up certain 'trap' hands to see what happens? Thinking about quads hand doug had today and whether that was something the developers threw into the mix as a test. I'm aware setups / coolers will happen over a sample of 80k hands, just wondered whether they've put some bonus ones in.
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Old 04-27-2015, 05:03 PM   #612
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by icoon View Post
Im enjoying this a lot.

Tnx for doing this humans and robot!

Would be cool to see winrates per position at the end. So that we can see if Humans still have an edge withouth the minlead thing
Well it would be a huge surprise if humans aren't winning ip so not too sure what conclusions we can extrapolate for the minlead strategy.

It would be good if they played a decent sample without minlead to compare with the hhs when they do lead.
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Old 04-27-2015, 05:19 PM   #613
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

You can compare the ip winrate with ip winrate assuming no edge (im sure some people here wil have good estimate of gto ip and oop winrate )
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Old 04-27-2015, 05:20 PM   #614
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by Masq View Post
How were the hands generated for the sample? Was it done randomly or have they set up certain 'trap' hands to see what happens? Thinking about quads hand doug had today and whether that was something the developers threw into the mix as a test. I'm aware setups / coolers will happen over a sample of 80k hands, just wondered whether they've put some bonus ones in.
Anything other than a RNG would be ridiculous.
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Old 04-27-2015, 05:22 PM   #615
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by kaby View Post
if you are pandorasbux, does that mean you're gonna start playing me at 25/50 again?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton View Post
i dont think cheet is pandorasbux, i think pandorasbux had his identity outed during last WSOP during a HU event or something
Right. Pandorasbux is fingersmith on 2p2.

Question: was Bjorn part of the evil empire pre ban? Or added because they felt bad about jmo outing him?

This challenge is really cool. Will be interesting to see the final result-- go humans!
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Old 04-27-2015, 05:39 PM   #616
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

cheet just had a hand where he had QJ on KTXcc 3c As, bot check/jammed river. cheet then attempted to perform a magic trick that would turn the 3c into 3d. The magic trick was unsuccesful and he folded. One would assume he has more success with his magic tricks on untracked euro sites.
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Old 04-27-2015, 05:51 PM   #617
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

r u trying to be funny bro
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Old 04-27-2015, 06:00 PM   #618
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

no, that is an accurate retelling of events.
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Old 04-27-2015, 06:06 PM   #619
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton View Post
2h Td 5d As 7x

Bot TT, Bjorn A2
r/c, lead/raise/call (i think?), k/b/r/c, k/overbet/tankfold (wp!)

Dong TT, Bot A2
r/c, Bot c/r flop dong call, turn bet call, river bot bets 1/10 pot and calls the overbet shove

HUMANITY
Why do you think the bot has found 1/10th pot more profitable in it's experience here than check?

Gains money vs hands that would otherwise check behind while still getting just as much vs the rest because it's opponents raise just about the same range they bet when checked to and bluff just about the same vs 1/10th pot as they do when checked to? just a wild guess at one facet of the logic behind this bet.
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Old 04-27-2015, 06:06 PM   #620
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

bot getting massacred today
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Old 04-27-2015, 06:13 PM   #621
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by Clayton View Post
wow

cheet 5bets AKo for 6500ish, bot 4bet/calls the 98ss

flop comes JTx two hearts, cheet jams for 1psb, bot folds the OESD
You make 7,112 getting it on the flop. 6500 when he folds flop. Technically i guess you wanna get it in but ill take less to not have to sweat it!
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Old 04-27-2015, 06:15 PM   #622
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Some girl flirting with WCG while he plays lol
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Old 04-27-2015, 06:19 PM   #623
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

^ that girl responding "exactly" to everything he says and obv having no idea is awesome
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Old 04-27-2015, 06:21 PM   #624
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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^ that girl responding "exactly" to everything he says and obv having no idea is awesome
She just got her masters yesterday!
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Old 04-27-2015, 06:29 PM   #625
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

in hand 222, jason had Ad9d on K9X56r board. don't remember exact action but bot shoved for pot on river. jason tanked for awhile, then decided he would have better hands in his range to bluffcatch with and folded. bot had AT.
in the reverse situation, doug raised AT pre, bot did one of those big 7x 3b, doug 4b, bot folded.
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