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Old 04-27-2015, 07:41 AM   #551
+VLFBERH+T
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by partywme View Post
I really hope they release the bot at some point online to give others a chance to play vs it.

It seems like the evil empire have an edge vs it atm but be interesting to see if the bot can adjust it's strategy and become better towards the end of the challenge
This !

Given Tuomas Sandholms interview in CardPlayer last year in September, saying "People could play against the bot and learn from observation and practice, or even play against it and be able to ask it for advice as far as what it would do if it where in their shoes, so we will be able to make a very cool training tool out of this bot." - some hope seems justified.
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Old 04-27-2015, 07:45 AM   #552
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

One influence that appears to be affecting play is that they are not using their own real money.

Yes, I believe there is some prize or payment at the end that relates to performance; but, I saw a few plays that I believe the humans would not have made if they were using actual cash (bluffs they made and bets they called).

From what I have seen, Bjorn seems like he more than the others has been playing it straight (as in, viewing the bot as a real opponent using real cash even to the point of berating the "guy" for tanking on a simple hand) and adopting a style best suited to exploit the style that he believes the bot is playing while appearing to view the "cash" as cash. For that reason, I am most curious to see how it does it against him when all is said and done.

p.s.-- Would love to have seen Jungleman in this event, if only to get him yelling at the bot before accepting it as a friend that shares his thinking/social skills.
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Old 04-27-2015, 07:56 AM   #553
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by restorativejustice View Post
p.s.-- Would love to have seen Jungleman in this event, if only to get him yelling at the bot before accepting it as a friend that shares his thinking/social skills.
lol
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Old 04-27-2015, 08:06 AM   #554
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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cheet = PremiumWhey ?????
I think this is the best guess so far.
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Old 04-27-2015, 08:09 AM   #555
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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sn ends in x
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Originally Posted by enzet View Post
p*********x
considering the jmo hint, I'd assume this is the correct answer. Seems to fit imo
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Old 04-27-2015, 08:16 AM   #556
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Well that means pandorasbux has multiple 2p2 accounts because his username isn't a secret on here and it's not cheet. I think it's cheet is premiumwhey
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Old 04-27-2015, 08:34 AM   #557
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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I think this is the best guess so far.
does he even lift?
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Old 04-27-2015, 09:18 AM   #558
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Doesnt cheet bumhunt American sites?

That would explain his very unpleasant post history. Almost every single post on this forum from him has been insults
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Old 04-27-2015, 09:27 AM   #559
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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That would explain his very unpleasant post history. Almost every single post on this forum from him has been insults
It's required for initiation into the evil empire
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Old 04-27-2015, 09:49 AM   #560
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Anyone ever made an aproximation of the standard deviation in Duplicate poker? Or for the particular event (duplicate HU poker 200bb deep vs aggro tard bot)
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Old 04-27-2015, 09:54 AM   #561
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by punter11235 View Post
It's so fun to watch. I don't know how you guys agreed to play for 14 days 8 hours straight every day with the kind of opportunities you have elsewhere but I am certainly happy you did. The show is great and everyone is fun to watch on Twitch. It seems you are also showing the bot where its place is which is fantastic
Yeah lot of talk in this thread but not enough thank you so i +1 this post big time.

Also i wonder how you guys sleep at night, all i can see when i go to bed after a day of watching this, is the bot in the form of a livid dream and he check overshove all in the river after the flop and turn was checked trough and other plays of that nature
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Old 04-27-2015, 10:13 AM   #562
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Humans (not to forget: some of the very best we have) play vs bot w/o rake and are up 10bb/100, so would be up considerably less with rake.

Unfortunately I haven't been able so far to follow the challenge very closely, but have watched parts of the first day. Given the above numbers, the bot isn't half-bad, it seems ... Some here make it seem like the AI guys are getting spanked much worse than they actually are ?!
Considerably less like 9bb/100 instead of 10bb/100 at higher stakes ?

Bot is getting spanked. First day they murdered it. Then it analyzed hands and got tweaked and did better. Programmers had 100% access to handhistory, something that never will happen online. Then they helped the bot and the bot still lost. Is that really something you are respecting? Is that really something you feel threatened by?

Here we have some of the top names in poker thinking it's basically **** (Cheet seems to respect it though, which made me a bit unhappy). Despite a distracting environment, HUD-less, poor interface, play money, 8 hours a day, yeah everything against them they still outperform the bot by a lot.

Seeing how the bot plays how much do you think a pure counterstrategy to the bot would make? 20bb/100? 30?
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Old 04-27-2015, 10:44 AM   #563
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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As a human and someone who has passion for the game of HUNL, I want the "Brains" team to have the best chance possible to represent humanity and beat this A.I. I believe making me a part of the team gives us that best chance.
if you are pandorasbux, does that mean you're gonna start playing me at 25/50 again?
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Old 04-27-2015, 10:53 AM   #564
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by Deuce2High View Post
Noambrown: We don't want to give too much of the bot away, but we do use regret minimization algorithms, as well as some other things thrown in the mix
That's odd. I thought they were doing this for academic purposes?

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Originally Posted by NVF View Post
The programmer seems surprisingly uninformed about poker theory. Doug had a river spot where he was facing a 2x overbet on a 4 straight board and he commented that he liked the bot's bet sizing because he would rarely have a straight but the bot could have a lot more straights. The programmer responded in confusion asking why the bot wouldn't just bet smaller to try to get called if it had the straight, and Doug semi-seriously asked if he was leveling him.
This is pretty baffling. One would assume PhD's working on a poker bot would have some entry level understanding of game theory/would have read MoP.

Tbh, I doubt (and I might be 100% wrong) that the best bots in the world don't even enter these competitions. They are mining gold online, trying to stay under the radar. Especially if there's a stipulation that bots' source codes must be released to be eligible to enter contests.
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Old 04-27-2015, 10:53 AM   #565
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Yeah at highstakes 10bb/100 is not that bad rakeless, so maybe it's still a bit below the best regs (still early days, and the humans are beginning to find exploitative leaks). But the bot is losing at a considerably smaller rate compared with what lowstakes regs would lose in this scenario.

As you pointed out though this game is not transitive, so it's quite hard to say how the bot will do against the said lowstakes regs. I'm not sure if the log5 method works here or if a elo based ranking makes a decent model for poker playing strength.
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Old 04-27-2015, 10:55 AM   #566
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Ezdonk- the bots online are most likely not the best bots in terms of distance to GTO, but rather best in terms of not being detectable, and crushing the online low/misdstakes human players.
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Old 04-27-2015, 11:22 AM   #567
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by watergun7 View Post
As you pointed out though this game is not transitive, so it's quite hard to say how the bot will do against the said lowstakes regs. I'm not sure if the log5 method works here or if a elo based ranking makes a decent model for poker playing strength.
Well, if it plays like day 1 I don't think it could beat a majority of low stakes regs. Regarding some kind of rating system I find that hard to visualize, not only in theory but also in practice since players improve/degenerate drastically day to day.
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Old 04-27-2015, 11:23 AM   #568
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

They've just begun playing
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Old 04-27-2015, 11:30 AM   #569
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

How can bjorn_li fold this? I woulda called. Q3 on T93 Q7 rainbow (missed turned hearts). 1.5 PSB. Action went 3b, b, xc, x...

edit: damn...bot had KJ
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Old 04-27-2015, 11:36 AM   #570
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by tultfill View Post
How can bjorn_li fold this? I woulda called. Q3 on T93 Q7 rainbow (missed turned hearts). 1.5 PSB. Action went 3b, b, xc, x...

edit: damn...bot had KJ
haha sick ownage , did Doug got a big chunk of chips??
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Old 04-27-2015, 11:36 AM   #571
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Polk unexpectedly not jamming river w J9ds in 3b pot after calling pre and calling post small bets flop+turn+river on QTdd ragr ragd Ar (r=rainbow).
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Old 04-27-2015, 11:38 AM   #572
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by frenchfish View Post
haha sick ownage , did Doug got a big chunk of chips??
Doug did, but in another hand (3b pot K9 v TT). Flushie is paired with Dong and dong is down a bit so don't think so.
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Old 04-27-2015, 11:46 AM   #573
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

Pretty cool to see these players and how they grind.

Dong is just speeding through it, completing hands at double the rate of flushie. Flushie thinks about every hand a lot, talking out loud with himself going through possible combos and commenting on strategy and sizing. Doug is just very pleasant, talkative and polite to everyone around him, having a good time and seemingly very playful. Cheet is thinking a lot, but more quietly. He's obviously a huge poker nerd and doesn't mind discussing poker with anyone who inquires.

All in all these guys are great ambassadors for the game.

The streams I watch most are Doug's if I want to have a laugh and enjoy myself or Flushie's if I want to learn things. Once in a while I check out Cheet hoping to catch him nerding it out with some bystander.
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Old 04-27-2015, 11:55 AM   #574
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

I hear Cheet talking about standrad deviation , i can only assume it s for this format (duplicate) and i heard 160 , seems high to me for duplicate .
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Old 04-27-2015, 12:05 PM   #575
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Re: WCGRider, Dong Kim, Jason Les and Bjorn Li to play against a new HU bot

i dont think cheet is pandorasbux, i think pandorasbux had his identity outed during last WSOP during a HU event or something
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