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Old 04-20-2015, 06:02 PM   #26
Nick_AA
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Re: WCGRider and Dong Kim to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by Jamsym2 View Post
Ugh streamed and broadcast?

Sounds like this could have some pretty bad ramifications if the bot were to win or do well.

Hopefully the bot get crushed.

Most def
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Old 04-20-2015, 06:22 PM   #27
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Re: WCGRider and Dong Kim to play against a new HU bot

I really hope the humans win that one. It would be very sad if basically a brute force algorithm were strong enough to beat top human players already.
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Old 04-20-2015, 06:52 PM   #28
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Re: WCGRider and Dong Kim to play against a new HU bot

This is such a terrible idea. Why in the hell would they do this?
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Old 04-20-2015, 06:52 PM   #29
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Re: WCGRider and Dong Kim to play against a new HU bot

I don't see why this would be a good proposition for WCG/Donger if they're doing it pro bono. Unless they get some kick out of publicity of course.

If I would be #1 NLHU player in the world I would sure as hell not give free HHs to any bot developer so they can afterwards review and develop it further. Sounds like they're hurting their bottom line as NLHU players. Granted, it'll still take years until a bot could beat them, but I wouldn't be giving any insight on my play why I'm #1 in a particular game.
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Old 04-20-2015, 07:00 PM   #30
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Re: WCGRider and Dong Kim to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by ezdonkey View Post
I don't see why this would be a good proposition for WCG/Donger if they're doing it pro bono. Unless they get some kick out of publicity of course.

If I would be #1 NLHU player in the world I would sure as hell not give free HHs to any bot developer so they can afterwards review and develop it further. Sounds like they're hurting their bottom line as NLHU players. Granted, it'll still take years until a bot could beat them, but I wouldn't be giving any insight on my play why I'm #1 in a particular game.
thats not how bots get better, the lhe bot played itself from scratch to get better
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Old 04-20-2015, 07:08 PM   #31
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Re: WCGRider and Dong Kim to play against a new HU bot

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thats not how bots get better, the lhe bot played itself from scratch to get better
Come to think of it, you're right.
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Old 04-20-2015, 07:09 PM   #32
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Re: WCGRider and Dong Kim to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by ezdonkey View Post
I don't see why this would be a good proposition for WCG/Donger if they're doing it pro bono. Unless they get some kick out of publicity of course.

If I would be #1 NLHU player in the world I would sure as hell not give free HHs to any bot developer so they can afterwards review and develop it further. Sounds like they're hurting their bottom line as NLHU players. Granted, it'll still take years until a bot could beat them, but I wouldn't be giving any insight on my play why I'm #1 in a particular game.
I don't think that much information will be gained by watching WGC play NL. The information on how to play great HUNL is already out there, and although we may get to see a few novelties from WGC, some of which may trickle down the stakes, good players are not going to start playing much better from just watching him. And anyways, the community already can view great HU players in action. Take primordialAA's twitch stream for example

It's somewhat similar to watching Magnus Carlsen play chess. We may get to see some original opening novelties, but 90% of the skill gap (99.9% in chess) will have to be gained through other means.

Anyways, has this been confirmed from another source? OP's link is down.

As for my match speculation, I think that it will be very close. I think that if adaptations are necessary to beat Claudico, they won't be obvious, and that the match should naturally have high variance. I still think that WGC and Donger are a favorite, but it seriously wouldn't surprise me if the bot comes out on top of it all.

Last edited by RussianRoulette; 04-20-2015 at 07:19 PM.
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Old 04-20-2015, 07:11 PM   #33
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Re: WCGRider and Dong Kim to play against a new HU bot

Doesn't chess engines use gigantic databases of previous matches with similar positions to come up with the best move in certain spots though? Just because that GTO LHE bot played itself until it became (close to) GTO it doesn't mean that this NLHE bot does.

edit: this is a response to EZ's post, and the chess reference was indepentend to the post above this one..

Last edited by Loctus; 04-20-2015 at 07:15 PM. Reason: .
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Old 04-20-2015, 07:14 PM   #34
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Re: WCGRider and Dong Kim to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by ezdonkey View Post
If I would be #1 NLHU player in the world I would sure as hell not give free HHs to any bot developer so they can afterwards review and develop it further. Sounds like they're hurting their bottom line as NLHU players.
This. Wow publicity whores
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Old 04-20-2015, 07:20 PM   #35
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Re: WCGRider and Dong Kim to play against a new HU bot

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Is Brilliant27 in this thing?
Yeah I don't get why they picked these two nobodies when the champ surely would step up
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Old 04-20-2015, 07:26 PM   #36
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Re: WCGRider and Dong Kim to play against a new HU bot

(Also to BitchiBee)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loctus View Post
Doesn't chess engines use gigantic databases of previous matches with similar positions to come up with the best move in certain spots though? Just because that GTO LHE bot played itself until it became (close to) GTO it doesn't mean that this NLHE bot does.

edit: this is a response to EZ's post, and the chess reference was indepentend to the post above this one..
Didn't Cepheus start with two bots playing each other from scratch, making totally random moves at the beginning until starting to converge towards Nash-optimal solution?

Suppose NL bot is created with similar means. But instead of having two NL bots randomly flinging poo and betsizes at each other, what if we used a different starting point? And this would be the sample where the bot tries to find maximally exploitative play against WCG's play on whatever amount of hands they decide to play. Since WCG will surely play better than a bot playing at random, wouldn't a bot start to converge towards Nash-optimal solution a lot faster if they started to search Nash equilibrium from a different starting point, no? Does this make any sense?

(Hopefully I'm not off with my terminology here.)
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Old 04-20-2015, 07:30 PM   #37
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Re: WCGRider and Dong Kim to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by ezdonkey View Post
(Also to BitchiBee)



Didn't Cepheus start with two bots playing each other from scratch, making totally random moves at the beginning until starting to converge towards Nash-optimal solution?

Suppose NL bot is created with similar means. But instead of having two NL bots randomly flinging poo and betsizes at each other, what if we used a different starting point? And this would be the sample where the bot tries to find maximally exploitative play against WCG's play on whatever amount of hands they decide to play. Since WCG will surely play better than a bot playing at random, wouldn't a bot start to converge towards Nash-optimal solution a lot faster if they started to search Nash equilibrium from a different starting point, no? Does this make any sense?

(Hopefully I'm not off with my terminology here.)
The process you're talking about requires trillions of hands from both sides, and also there is nothing overly special or unique about WGC's play such that you couldn't use hands from a midstakes reg as a starting point.
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Old 04-20-2015, 07:49 PM   #38
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Re: WCGRider and Dong Kim to play against a new HU bot

I think that's a terrible idea, how much of the match will be streamed?

Maybe Doug and BDDK could explain it a bit more...

Edit: Link doesn't work
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Old 04-20-2015, 08:08 PM   #39
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Re: WCGRider and Dong Kim to play against a new HU bot

terrible idea
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Old 04-20-2015, 08:17 PM   #40
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Re: WCGRider and Dong Kim to play against a new HU bot

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I feel like people are greatly overestimating how far removed limit and no limit HU really are.
lol
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Old 04-20-2015, 08:31 PM   #41
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Re: WCGRider and Dong Kim to play against a new HU bot

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezdonkey View Post
I don't see why this would be a good proposition for WCG/Donger if they're doing it pro bono. Unless they get some kick out of publicity of course.

If I would be #1 NLHU player in the world I would sure as hell not give free HHs to any bot developer so they can afterwards review and develop it further. Sounds like they're hurting their bottom line as NLHU players. Granted, it'll still take years until a bot could beat them, but I wouldn't be giving any insight on my play why I'm #1 in a particular game.

+1

Donger & TC not as smart as people think. Tarded to play their A game v this bot.
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Old 04-20-2015, 09:21 PM   #42
5=2+2
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Re: WCGRider and Dong Kim to play against a new HU bot

The point is they won't need to play their A game. Besides, as has already been pointed out, HH's of top regs are common knowledge anyway for anyone who wants them bad enough. A bot or human that is potentially going to beat WCG will already be well on it's way. Another few K hands for this challenge will make little or no difference.
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Old 04-20-2015, 09:24 PM   #43
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Re: WCGRider and Dong Kim to play against a new HU bot

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezdonkey View Post
I don't see why this would be a good proposition for WCG/Donger if they're doing it pro bono. Unless they get some kick out of publicity of course.

If I would be #1 NLHU player in the world I would sure as hell not give free HHs to any bot developer so they can afterwards review and develop it further. Sounds like they're hurting their bottom line as NLHU players. Granted, it'll still take years until a bot could beat them, but I wouldn't be giving any insight on my play why I'm #1 in a particular game.
this +1000
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Old 04-20-2015, 09:32 PM   #44
RussianRoulette
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Re: WCGRider and Dong Kim to play against a new HU bot

Are there any new sources / reports on this yet? This still seems to be unconfirmed.

It is scary to think about a HUNL bot beating the best human competition and what that would mean for the future of HUNL poker. But this is already an inevitability.
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Old 04-20-2015, 09:32 PM   #45
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Re: WCGRider and Dong Kim to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by Jamsym2 View Post
Ugh streamed and broadcast?

Sounds like this could have some pretty bad ramifications if the bot were to win or do well.

Hopefully the bot get crushed.
yea, this. just promoting bots in general is dumb. poker doesn't need more headlines about em
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Old 04-20-2015, 09:35 PM   #46
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Thumbs down Re: WCGRider and Dong Kim to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by RussianRoulette View Post
Are there any new sources / reports on this yet? This still seems to be unconfirmed.

It is scary to think about a HUNL bot beating the best human competition and what that would mean for the future of HUNL poker. But this is already an inevitability.
For sure they've heard about this thread by now. If it wasn't confirmed, they would have said so.
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Old 04-20-2015, 09:35 PM   #47
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Re: WCGRider and Dong Kim to play against a new HU bot

lol @ thinking WCG and donger are playing for free.
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Old 04-20-2015, 09:48 PM   #48
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Re: WCGRider and Dong Kim to play against a new HU bot

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Originally Posted by Eskaborr View Post
Whoa guys, we got a hotshot gambler over here.

You really walk the line bro.
https://instagram.com/p/1Oz8SfScLQ/
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Old 04-20-2015, 10:30 PM   #49
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Re: WCGRider and Dong Kim to play against a new HU bot

Bots need to be in the limelight as little as possible. Just enough to stop them from playing cash online.

NLHE is significantly more complicated than lhe not just because of the different betsizings but because the stack to pot ratios
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Old 04-20-2015, 10:58 PM   #50
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Re: WCGRider and Dong Kim to play against a new HU bot

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Couple pics in there for opps like you. 30 hanging out no curfew. Smokin on FeesPack

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdtDTVjhqBY

"no face no case"

scarf boy
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