The main issue is that two people who make a great living by exploiting other people's stupidity don't have the common sense to keep their dirty laundry out of the public view.

The fact that one of them is a socially inadequate nit with self esteem issues and the other is an entitled narcissistic constantly bragging bitch boy makes things that much funnier.

Not sure how BERRI got the wrong end of the stick on the xbook bet, seems quite obvious what Ben was looking to bet on, but a bet is a bet and Ben should definitely pay out.

Ben's definitely coming over as the kind of guy who will do anything to make a bit of money. Some may call it "savvy" and his results at the high stakes clearly show that he's picking his spots well but it's not making him any friends.

+1 hundred mirrion

Yep, long may it continue. These two clowns are long on $$$ but short on self-awareness.

going to try my HARDEST to not let the tilt of the irony of this topic get to me

one post, ONE TIME

Jungle pls save the day

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What's the irony jungle?

Oh yeah, wasn't Doug some average FR reg and after spending some time living/hanging with jungleman he became HUNL beast? And then proceeded to challenge jungle?

Nah, let it flow junglefriend!

There's just not enough popcorn last few days.

Based upon the contents of the thread:

I like people like Doug, I strongly dislike people like Ben. Doug seems like a stand up guy with strong morals and ethics. Ben seems like an insecure person with no morals, or rather he has morals as long as the outcome paints him as the 'winner'. He absolutely can't handle losing or being wrong. Also seems like quite the sociopath.

Good on you Doug for speaking out on this. People that act in this way need to be called out so that other unsuspecting victims can be warned.

He didn't really challenge him did he? Maybe this is the reason they never did a full on HU challenge like Doug did with Sauce.

The part which is confusing to me is that apparently Ben was unable to give any kind of PLO coaching without constant reference to the fabled software/dream machine. Like, wtf does that imply? Were all the most high-value elements of his strategy ones which he couldn't explain other than to say, 'Lol idk, the machine says to do it.'

ETA: I guess the answer is kind of obvious: the (perhaps reciprocal) sharing of software was the whole deal, now being labelled 'coaching' for PR reasons.

In context, I'm richer than you means, You may be the best HUNL player in the world, but I've made more money playing poker than you have, and that's how we measure success in poker, so I'm a more successful poker player than you are.

Jungle, who's richer, you or Doug?

this also came to mind when I first read this thread

berri sweet thing seems like a mess, think it's clear what each person thought in chat.

I think you're moving the argument away from the crux of the problem. The personal things are superfluous (although still partially relevant), the main issue is agreeing on doing coaching and then backing out coupled with making himself completely unapproachable while still in the midst of a business relationship. And this is before we even approach the issue of the x-book with Berri (of which I think 90% of people disagree with your assessment of the situation).

Just so you know my position, I've had a fair few dealings with Doug, he has never been anything less than courteous and sincere. Others on here that suggest that he is akin to a high school bully couldn't be further from the mark, while I can't speak for him I am pretty certain that his view of bullies is they are as detestable as everyone elses. He told me about the Ben "I hate people who look like you" story maybe two years back, I have absolutely zero doubt to question whether it happened or not and it was clear that he was perturbed by it.

The reason that it feels like Ben is getting skewered in this thread is because 1) he is offering no rebuttals and 2) the accusations against him are both plausible (pulling out of coaching) and mounting (new berri discussion).

I'm sure Doug would want you to speak out as he believe it is important to not stand by silently when someone posts something hypocritical.

Feed the beast jungleman. NVGs hungry

Beans getting spilled all over the place... you may as well join the party Jungle.

yeah .... show the rider, who's the king!

ive thought some and hestitated to post something on the berri/ben topic, but it seems like people seem to misunderstand the situation completely, so im gonna post my thoughts.

first of all, i didnt have any business with berri in the past. i was and am having some business running with ben (basically just a lot of xbooks) and there was never the slightest sign of a problem, he has been very professional from what i can tell. also i have made a lot of xbooks in the past, so i would say i have quite some experience of whats standard and what isnt.


the way ben approached berri about the xbook, everyone who ever did an xbook would agree its super clear bens interpretation is the right one. at no point they discuss splitting the xbook. you guys try to interpret way too much into their discussion about distribution of rake and berris "gogo, thx" and just dont look enough at how obvious the situation is overall. often times someone replied in a weird way to me as berri did here, but its eventually not bens responsibility to make sure berri is actually betting the way he intends to. i usually say something like "you have player x side, i have player y side, 75% xbook, rake is split in blabla way" to be on the safe side, but ive noticed that almost nobody else doing that from my experience.

if i were in bens shoes, i would never accept berri not paying if sauce had won. i cant speak for ben, but it seems very clear to me that 90%+ of knowledgeable xbookers would look at it the same way as i do. i have a really hard time ben would have accepted berri not paying to be honest, it would at least require both
1) ben ruling out any chance berri was trying to freeroll
2) ben being extremely generous

i think what it comes down to is the question whether berri should be freerolled or not for being very unclear. i think the fair solution is clearly this:
if there were say 5 arbitrators, they should look at the event if sauce had won 80k, because thats more intuitive. if they decide ben is clearly entitled to claim the money from berri, it should be the same when results are vice versa, because it eliminates the chance of a freeroll in favor of berri by being unclear.
if the arbitrators decide ben should get 80% of the money, berri should get 80% of the money when trueteller wins 80k.

i can understand how it might seem weird that someone gets paid for a bet he didnt intend to make, but if you look at it in a logical way, its the only reasonable decision. by saying the bet should have been a wash, you assume that arbitrators would have said ben is entitled to get 0% from berri, if sauce had won 80k. that would at least not have happened in this universe.

for the rest of the story, id rather not go too much in depth. berri doesnt come across as a person to me in this thread who should ever do a xbook again and he clearly is responsible for some of the negative events. if you are utterly careless, you deserve to get into trouble sometimes.
that being said, how ben and ike allowed ike to act as an arbitrator here after already having made a decision(!!!!!!), is just beyond me. its so bad, i would have chased you all around if that happened to me.

in the past whenever i was looking for an arbitrator (meaning i shouldnt be friends with that person + the person should be smart and fair, which DOES imply refusing to arbitrate whenever you feel you are biased or already made a decision before being picked lololololol), first names coming to my mind were always kanu and ike. thats a big disappointment, wouldnt have expected something like that

Great post, agree 100%.

I don't see the big deal with Ben's supposed "sociopathic attack". It doesn't look good and I'm sure it was a heat of the moment thing that he now regrets, but I can totally empathize with what goes through his mind when he snaps, even after only hearing Doug's side.

Not that I dislike Doug really, I have both Doug's and Ben's in my life and I just don't see how a friendship between them could ever work.

And yes, all the deal related stuff looks bad. But I feel sickened by how all the personal things that has been said will get used by the masses against Ben from this point onwards.