Wtf at berri's post

I got a message from the second judge who said that he had only ever spoken a few times with Ben on skype when he made the ruling, so I retract the part of them being friends in any manner that would suggest he was a bad pick to make the ruling because of that.

Conclusion: Don't look up to anybody in the poker world

That convo doesn't make sides clear at all... Am I missing something? How do they not discuss who is taking who?

I was about to post about how Doug was obviously a bit scammed over the coaching thing but also how this is unfortunate as both are probably good guys with a few personal issues thrown in here and there.

However, after reading the Berri post: Ben86, man up and pay Berri the remainder of that 40k. How could you dispute that? It's ridiculously obvious. You also clearly shorted WCG over the coaching thing. Come on man, grow up and stop doing stuff like this. Maybe also stop drinking if it brings inherent anger to the surface like that.

I'm sure Ben is an ok guy behind it all, just a bit insecure with a massive need to prove himself and as a counterproductive to this also ridiculously competitive to the point of morals slipping.

WCG is for sure a bit of a drama queen, however I must say that he seems from the outside to be completely trustworthy. If Ben doesn't like the way he looks because he reminds him of people at school or whatever then blahblah cry me a river and get over it. Really. Got to grow out of that stuff and keep it out of dealings with others.

Ike: man, that's a scam job there on Berri. It was as obvious as night follows day and you knows it. Shouldn't have done that.

Ben and Sauce are good friends I believe so it seems pretty clear to me.

helicopter Ben seems to be a bit of a lunatic but I guess that's what it takes to get to the top. I noticed the same in competitive gaming where the top players are all super salty even when things go almost perfectly for them. But it's never good enough when you have that insane drive to be the 1% of the 1%

I think Doug is a Nice guy sux ben did that to him . . .

This. I think most of the people commenting on BERRI's post don't even understand what happened so let me make it more clear as I understood it. It seem very obvious from the chat what each of them was thinking, ie, BERRI saying "gogo" implies to me that he thinks he and Ben were on the same side of the bet (betting on Sauce, against Trueteller).

(1) Ben's perception: Ben bet on Sauce vs Trueteller for 50% against BERRI. Meaning if Sauce loses 80k, Ben owes BERRI 40k. If Sauce wins 80k, BERRI owes Ben 40k.

(2) BERRI's perception: Trueteller wanted to xbook 100% of his match with Sauce, and Ben didn't want to take the full 100% so he was looking for someone to split it with. BERRI took said 50%, meaning if Sauce wins 80k, Ben and BERRI both receive 40k from Trueteller, and if Sauce loses 80k, Ben and Berri both pay Trueteller 40k.

The actual result is Sauce loses 80k. So in (1), Ben owes BERRI 40k, and in (2), BERRI and Ben both owe Trueteller 40k. The problem arises because Trueteller was not a party to this bet, meaning if Sauce won, BERRI would be expecting 40k from Trueteller which he would never get.

IMO this is like the clearest wash ever. The chat is pretty much a slam dunk -- and it's actually pretty funny you guys were careful enough to figure out how to deal with the rake, but not careful enough to clarify which side BERRI was betting on.

It's very obvious that Ben was trying to bet against Trueteller, but it's also very obvious that BERRI thought he was on the same side as Ben.

Unfortunately Helicopter Ben isn't Ben86, nor is it ForHayley as someone previously suggested. ForHayley was some 5 or 6 letter name in the ftp games.

This makes it worse from Bens side.

If there's a pattern here so far, it's that Ben seems awfully quick to pounce when an opportunity for a freeroll arises:

1. Even if the Doug coaching-freeroll didn't begin with specific malicious intent, he quickly reneged on his half of the bargain once his PLO 'partner' objected (and more alarmingly seemed to have no problem justifying it as though he had no choice, when -- as has been unanimously pointed out here -- he absolutely did, and simply chose to short Doug.)
2. The above BERRI situation, if my understanding is correct, it almost certainly didn't start out as a scam, but again: freeroll opportunity arises, Ben snap-calls.

Not that semantics matter all that much, but I wouldn't call these "scams". Nor even angleshoots, which presuppose some kind of malicious aforethought. Reminds me of Louis CK's words to Dane Cook in that episode of Louie : "I don't think you meant to do it, but I don't think you stopped yourself, either." It's just how some people are hard-wired, for better or worse. I certainly don't lump Ben's (alleged) transgressions in with the outright thieves and scammers. But if true, they certainly aren't the actions of a person with unimpugnable character.

lol oh no... more poker idols and heros crashing and burning.

This.

@ twoshae: we know the situation, he explained it in his post. I still don't see how it's a wash. If sauce had won would Ben have wanted his money or a wash? Come on, man. He should pay up.

In retrospect, I might have to take back my previous point re: how implicated Ike is, because if Ben was lying to him re; the details i.e. it's he pays me or I pay him, then Ike would have been correct to call it a wash imo. Not sure how much Ike actually knew of the truths having been dealing with only Ben who it seems was clearly on the lie. Eitherway, Ike probably should have been fairer and more helpful to Berri towards the end of his role as arbitrator.

Of course Ben would have wanted his money. But when he tried to collect it, BERRI would have explained his perception and we'd be in the exact same predicament, except everyone would be yelling that BERRI owes Ben 40k instead of the other way around.

most accurate post so far

Is it a coincidence that Ben received the NL coaching first and received multiple sessions? Ask yourself this and think honestly about it.

It was very scummy what Ben did. He should have obviously cleared it with his partner first.

It appears Ben was looking for a convenient excuse that could justify a scum-baggy action.

Ben should give Doug $50 to $100k for reneging on the coaching.

There are rumors that I believed which is why I never liked Ike and found the nut-hugging of him nauseating, but even with those being true "scumbag" seems a wee bit over the line.

eh occams razor.

if someone repeatedly scams, angles, freerolls etc "friends" and doesnt give a **** about it- probably a sociopath

no surprise if they were using some sort of software and keeping it under wraps/ not giving a **** / taking all the credit etc etc.

What are the rumors ?

The only fair solution is for Ben86 and Berri to each pay Trueteller 20k.

Seriously tough situation. It sucks to reward either player when they both thought that they had lost. Having a third party that wasn't involved also complicates things.

Was Berri going to send the money directly to Trueteller or through Ben86? It seems unlikely that Trueteller would have kept it. I also think Ben86 would want some or all of the money had Sauce won. Without knowing anything else I think I agree with the judge that gave Berri a small portion. Somwhere between 1/3 and 1/2.

Nah man, you are totally biased towards your buddy.

Explain to me why he insisted a buddy be the arbitrator? Especially when he had previously discussed the situation with this arbitrator before that person became arbitrator and thus had influenced that person and knew his take on it all? When he had also likely (it seems) lied to this arbitrator regarding the details? When he was also having private discussions with the arbitrator without the other involved party? When there was a need for a new arbitrator why did he again insist it was a buddy of his? Maybe because he had again influenced this person e.g. the 20k? (wtf was that % of 20k instead of 40k about??)

Explain these things to me and how they don't at least show he was on the take and being damn shady about it all? This is clearly the case and if so then why? Why was he being shady? Maybe because he is an end boss HS pro with a few logical brain cells who knows which way the wind blows and therefore knows he should be paying up?

Good luck getting both sides to post arbitration bonds. You can always use Solomonic wisdom: the side refusing to post up is the guilty party. Have that in the fine print.

this is honestly so spot on, from youtube comments

Dylan Parker14 hours ago
ben86 strikes me as the type who pretends to have a girlfriend for years, leaving "women" items around his place, yet through the grape vine it is discovered he has no girlfriend and every time he was "meeting his girlfriend" he was murdering people.

maybe i am been a bit harsh, he seemed quite nice on joeingram1 podcasts and seems very intelligent.

if i get it right from berris post, ike made a decision / talked to one party and expressed his view before agreeing to be the arbitrator.

thats outright scam, there is no point in denying it. i dont want to mention how poorly everything else was conducted, because its quite irrelevant if you look at how bad that is