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Old 09-04-2016, 11:28 AM   #226
Waltjr
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

Quote:
Originally Posted by WCGRider View Post
500/1k cap - I am surprised you don't understand this. I understand that no one is making me play, but to have the audacity to pull a move like that after getting my thoughts on the subject is clearly malicious.
Doug you are just flat out wrong about this. People do this all the time regardless of if there were any coaching or friendly connections. If you don't want to play him then just sit out and take a few hits down in the HU poker rankings
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Old 09-04-2016, 11:30 AM   #227
wopbabalubop
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

Quote:
Originally Posted by vizion88 View Post
Anyone remember when Ben wouldn't send Urubu $50 after Urubu lost a 60k flip to him and busted his roll?

50 DOLLARS

If there is anything to learn here, it's that Dreyfus does not play under the screenname urubu111
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Old 09-04-2016, 11:32 AM   #228
dynamite22
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

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Originally Posted by Two SHAE View Post
I'd be surprised if he didn't have an actual legal agreement with his partner, making it such that his hands actually were tied (Ie, an NDA)

so your toilet paper analogy goes down the drain
If he did have such an NDA it's even worse imo, 100% freeroll
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Old 09-04-2016, 11:37 AM   #229
wopbabalubop
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

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Originally Posted by BEnTrollene View Post
Be careful doug (pic is from ben86's own twitter)

https://youtu.be/-VLkb9aSuI8?t=58m40s

vs.

https://youtu.be/sQQbTTOBiOc?t=11m51s

Did someone try to lure someone else into some shadiness...? Maybe, but what actually happened?

Well, some dude invited another dude over to his place for a late night whiskey tasting. The host of this rendezvous might have tried to grab the gun that was in his guests pants. Not that there's anything wrong with that - as long as it was consensual.

The guest might have berated his host about that behavior, saying things like "I hate people who look like you, I have more money than you, Don't ever touch another man's gun without asking first" The details are fuzzy

Last edited by wopbabalubop; 09-04-2016 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 09-04-2016, 11:38 AM   #230
youriw21
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

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Originally Posted by murph8788 View Post
Think Doug lost all credibility when he starts talking about the personal stuff. His first line about what Ben said about Phil makes it so obvious he's trying to come up with anything to ruin his image. It has nothing to do with the business dealings and is like middle school stuff. Just start random probably fake drama so that his side of the story sounds better. You sound like a teenage girl going on about 15 minutes about personal stuff that has nothing to do with your business deal or poker. Really embarrassing for you to post that.

Also Doug you said you kept in touch with him after the initial coaching deal went south because you still thought it was beneficial for you and you might still be able to profit from him somehow in the future so Two Shae is correct when he said it didn't seem like it was just a friendship like you said. You thought you could get something out of him

Also your first line of the whole video is you don't bring up stuff that is not already in public. The thing that started this whole exchange was you calling him out in a public forum for a private matter.
this

What's wrong with him jeeezz
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Old 09-04-2016, 11:44 AM   #231
mumming
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

Quote:
Originally Posted by vizion88 View Post
Anyone remember when Ben wouldn't send Urubu $50 after Urubu lost a 60k flip to him and busted his roll?

50 DOLLARS

Lol, what kind of an idiot busts his entire roll in one hand and must beg for a 50$ roll afterwards.
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Old 09-04-2016, 11:49 AM   #232
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

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Originally Posted by mumming View Post
Lol, what kind of an idiot busts his entire roll in one hand and must beg for a 50$ roll afterwards.
Urubu111?
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Old 09-04-2016, 12:05 PM   #233
mrno1324
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

I wonder which secret concepts Dough taught Ben
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Old 09-04-2016, 12:11 PM   #234
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

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Originally Posted by BEnTrollene View Post
Be careful doug (pic is from ben86's own twitter)

Can somebody photoshop this sidesaddle onto a horse on a beach?
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Old 09-04-2016, 12:12 PM   #235
tytythefly
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrno1324 View Post
I wonder which secret concepts Dough taught Ben
To be a fly on a wall...
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Old 09-04-2016, 12:18 PM   #236
QWUT?
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

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Originally Posted by Chuck Bass View Post
How do you not simply put a pricetag to the coaching Ben received from WCG (/the the coaching WCG didn't receive from Ben). Ben pays it -> problem solved. Disagree on sum -> arbitrate. Ben refuses to pay -> then you can call him scum. Shouldn't have been that hard to solve this to begin with.
It's kinda about more than money though, plenty of high stakes players have a ton of money to invest in coaching.

This was an information trade off where each party had unique information the other wanted which they couldnt just pay to get by any other means.

Seems pretty hard to put a pricetag on the coaching after the fact when that wasn't the agreed upon terms and this is pretty much the 2 best players in each field offering a unique and mutually agreeable information exchange.

I imagine if you asked a large sample of the biggest name pros what would be fair monetary compensation in this scenario the range would be absolutely huge. It's not really a situation you can just throw money at to fix.
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Old 09-04-2016, 12:22 PM   #237
tytythefly
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

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Originally Posted by QWUT? View Post
It's kinda about more than money though, plenty of high stakes players have a ton of money to invest in coaching.

This was an information trade off where each party had unique information the other wanted which they couldnt just pay to get by any other means.

Seems pretty hard to put a pricetag on the coaching after the fact when that wasn't the agreed upon terms and this is pretty much the 2 best players in each field offering a unique and mutually agreeable information exchange.

I imagine if you asked a large sample of the biggest name pros what would be fair monetary compensation in this scenario the range would be absolutely huge. It's not really a situation you can just throw money at to fix.
You probably could agree on a price that would be fair. It's not like there's some uber secret NL strategies that would just make you a nose-bleed crusher. Right???
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Old 09-04-2016, 12:25 PM   #238
hasu
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

Quote:
Originally Posted by tytythefly View Post
To be a fly on a wall...
username checks out
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Old 09-04-2016, 12:26 PM   #239
WinOrGoHome21
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

pretty obv that wcg is attacking Ben just to make some noise/drama and gain more popularity points for upswingpoker
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Old 09-04-2016, 12:30 PM   #240
Waltjr
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

2 NL 2 PLO HU4ROLLZ

WHOEVER LOSES HAS TO FORFEIT INFORMATION
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Old 09-04-2016, 12:30 PM   #241
insidemanpoker
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

WGC:

1. Did Ben make any mention of needing the approval of a third party when you coached him? Did you have any reason to believe there was a chance he wouldn't be able to fulfill his end of the deal?

2. Can you not beat around the bush regarding the software you said Ben has access to and just elaborate once and for all what tools the top guys are using to get there? It's seems particularly relevant here because it sounds like this mystery third party gave the software to Ben and that is why he needs his approval, but either way, please just explain this.
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Old 09-04-2016, 12:32 PM   #242
wopbabalubop
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

Quote:
Originally Posted by WinOrGoHome21 View Post
pretty obv that wcg is attacking Ben just to make some noise/drama and gain more popularity points for upswingpoker
2500 people watching him twitch
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Old 09-04-2016, 12:34 PM   #243
SootedPowa
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

Quote:
Originally Posted by tytythefly View Post
It's not like there's some uber secret NL strategies that would just make you a nose-bleed crusher. Right???
Not so hard when your dream machine software prompter/hud tells you the GTO play at every step.
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Old 09-04-2016, 12:41 PM   #244
madmansam
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

GTO Solution to Resolving the Beef

25k hands HUNL
25k hands HUPLO
Cage Fight

Best 2 out of 3 wins
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Old 09-04-2016, 12:43 PM   #245
KINGDMER
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

That coaching thing is worse than theft. Disgusting.
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Old 09-04-2016, 12:44 PM   #246
javi
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Bass View Post
Thread is entertaining, but I just have one question

How do you not simply put a pricetag to the coaching Ben received from WCG (/the the coaching WCG didn't receive from Ben). Ben pays it -> problem solved. Disagree on sum -> arbitrate. Ben refuses to pay -> then you can call him scum. Shouldn't have been that hard to solve this to begin with.
Can you really put a price on this? They arent dealing for lump sums of cash, they are dealing for potential earnings. It's like trading stock tips, you could make millions. There's no $/hr value that Doug could assign for coaching. He's trading information for the option to play PLO and make untold amounts of money. Thats the pricetag, and he got gyped. It definitely sounds like an oversight by Ben, but it's not necessarily that easily forgiven because it's the kind of oversight that should have never happened. It's like when the CEO squanders the company's money on hookers n blow, he doesnt just get off with an "oops, sorry" because he made a mistake.

Ben now has information to enable him to print money at NL. As far as I'm concerned that debt is never resolved until Ben gives PLO advice, which I guess he can do when his contract is up or something.
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Old 09-04-2016, 12:44 PM   #247
walkby
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

I feel bad for Doug in this. Sharing insight in something competitive like poker and not having it be reciprocated when you thought you had an amicable relationship with someone could be pretty painful. I don't know the details but I hope this can be resolved in whatever way is the right way for something like this to be resolved.
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Old 09-04-2016, 12:45 PM   #248
mrno1324
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

Quote:
Originally Posted by madmansam View Post
GTO Solution to Resolving the Beef

25k hands HUNL
25k hands HUPLO
Cage Fight

Best 2 out of 3 wins
so basically whoever wins the cage fight wins
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Old 09-04-2016, 12:48 PM   #249
Drrr.Gonzo
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

Balls how advanced is B86's PLO knowledge(dream machine?) if there's basically a patent on it WTF. This is like first discovering the existence of huds why should the rest of us even bother playing at this point.

Last edited by Drrr.Gonzo; 09-04-2016 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 09-04-2016, 12:52 PM   #250
QWUT?
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drrr.Gonzo View Post
Balls how advanced is B86's PLO knowledge(dream machine?) if there's basically a patent on it WTF this is like first discovering the existence of huds why should the rest of us even bother playing at this point.
cause most of us won't be battling ben86 any time soon
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