I'm guessing he was trying to fold a chop.

bill gates has tens of billions of dollars, 2/4 is the same thing as 20,000/40,000 for him anyway

You might have missed the point /\

it is hard to believe that viffer is playing 5/5 at oceans 11 and no one has a picture to back this up...

Anyone surprised by this (or worse, who takes any joy/satisfaction in this) is priveledged af and has no idea about variance or human nature. Great thread.

sure...... and the Clinton foundation is not just a big slush fund of bribes either

you really don't understand how volatile and degen most 'pros' are, do you?

When DGAF switches to GAF, he speaks the truth.

And there's nothing wrong with O'11. Best table-side food in the poker world, quality*price considered.

snitches get stitches

I actually feel bad as I don't know when he was actually playing compared to when he was in Vegas so my comment was sorta unsubstantiated.

What's satisfying to people isn't the variance itself, but rather the regression to the mean following the heater. If someone didn't understand variance and still found this amusing, then yeah, maybe that's ****ed up.

Pretty much what pf and Phil said.

Lot of pros became "pros" because they found a gambling game they could actually win at for a period. Before they were "pros" they were essentially just degens being well degens.

In not so many words: they went from degen, to super rich degen back to a normal degen.

What is sad is that many fanboys are clinging to straws ie they think these guys are or were ****ing geniuses and the fact that they are playing way way lower / appear to be busto must be a prop bet or some other lol ****.

I mean they thought these pros were geniuses and extremely wealthy from watching all those poker after dark shows where they made truly horrible plays with garbage hands for lots of money.

Usually- the simplest answer is usually the correct one- they aren't weren't ever crazy mathematical geniuses making head scratching plays because they thought it was ev... No no no they did that **** (along with all the other degen stuff) because they are first and foremost degenerate gamblers.

What goes up must come down. I don't think anyone is laughing / feels awesome that these guys are back to busto. But there is some sort of satisfaction in the assurance that at least some things even out / come back to reality.

Pretty much this

I think a lot of people don't realize that he's probably just polishing up his game at these stakes to understand the current meta he'll run into, as he's playing a full slate of $200 buy in tournies (which is obv a prop bet)

Obv JK - Seriously use Occam's razor and we are probably right 95% of the time with the 2p2 mysteries of the day:

Is Dwan out of the poker scene because he's not as competitive, can't pay jungle and is a little embarrassed about it? Or does he have a multi million dollar relationship with the triads, is a strict EV pursuer and cant be bothered to text back people as he's in the manilla games?

Is Viffer a multi millionaire on a crazy prop bet so he plays once every two week 5-5 at Oceans? Or is he low on money?

Etc.

Archie karas anyone?


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When these "degens" were winning on PAD etc., I don't recall any 2P2 ers critiquing their "bad" play. INMO, the very best TV poker analyst is Tony Dunst. He is able to point out the reasons that a lot of the young guns are outplaying DNegs etc.
Long live the Viffer. The most entertaining poster here. I don't care if he is playing 5/5. If he is winning, he is better than 99% of the NL players.😎

To argue that this thread is a celebration of "regression to the mean" or whatever is silly imo.

1) There are no results/graphs.
2) The general public neither understands variance very well nor do they get excited by it (unless they work at fivethirtyeight.com maybe).

Viffer's fall in stakes (all the way down to as high/higher than probably most of the people posting itt) could be many things. It could be he stopped winning/started losing at high stakes. If that's the case, he could have been running well above expectation before or he could have run well below expectation lately- or both (no idea, can't measure it, never played with him). Or high stakes games got tougher and he could no longer beat them. All options are possible.

It's also possible that he shrunk his bankroll not playing poker. Maybe he "degened" it off. Or... maybe he did something good with it (helped family or friends, invested, bought a house, etc)...

Or maybe he didn't really shrink his bankroll and he is just choosing a chill life (in the most chill city in the world)....

The point is no one posting itt knows why he is playing "lol 5-5 at ocean's". So they can't truly be celebrating anything other than his "fall" in general- which is just pure schadenfreude if people are being honest with themselves.

And "degen" is a tricky word. People who live their lives how they want to- with no boundaries and often in excess use "degen" as a term of humility and endearment (while realizing their lifestyle isn't the most healthy or sustainable). People who don't live their lives that way also use "degen" as a term of endearment- if they are any amount enlightened and non-judgmental and secure with their own lives. These people could be called "nits"- which can also be a term of humility and endearment, or just a straight up "Well, I think the way you live your life is pretty lame too."

Imo.

This +100%...end of thread imo. Lock it up

Very well put, every thing said above is true. Anyone ever consider that the only game in San Diego are the games at Oceans 11?

Any ways alot of what was said above is true.

**** the haters Viff. I hope you run that **** up.

Would love a new well from you Viff, always entertaining and honest. And since this is NVG, I'll speculate that you might be a much happier human being living in San Diego splashing around their games occasionally than playing nosebleed stakes in Vegas and poppin bottles every night. Either way its nice to know you're still around.

This is a long punt by me but; it would be like Christmas around here if you did Chicago Joey's podcast one day; you are a fan favorite there.

No spelling mistakes? Perfect punctuation? Lucid exposition?

Who stole Viffer and replaced him with a doppelganger?

I believe his post contains spelling, punctuation, and grammatical errors. I have no clue what "lucid exposition" means but I have to imagine that is not the case either.

Didn't he buy a bunch of dirt riding vehicles and a trailer and just start roaming the country with his gf


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Dgaf- I respect what you have to say but it sounds like you haven't heard of or use Occam's razor.

As I said before, I don't think anyone is laughing at or relishing the fact how far the mighty have fallen.

You're a logical guy- you know there is no need for graphs or even the knowledge of how variance actually works in order for the average person to have some shred of sense of what happened. All it takes is common sense and a little bit of logical reasoning.

I guess some people (especially those still playing poker full time/ relying on it for income) want to keep thinking nice rosy happy ending stories where the hero rides off into the sunset with a cool couple million to live a semi retired life or w/e.

Ffs everyone who's been around knows that the guys who shot up to high stakes did so by having a large degen streak- and that same streak that made them great / wealthy for a short period doesn't just turn off like a light switch.

They ride it all the way up and all the way back down.

Think logically

it's pathetic the lives of these guys, they go from rags to riches and back to rags so many times and majority of the time they end up dying unhappy, sick and broke. some may say that they would love to be "viffer rich" or dwan rich, but to be rich like them you have to be sick in the head in the first place and that usually doesn't end with you being in net+ and not owing everyone