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View: Why can't someone play all formats of poker at a top level?

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02-23-2015 , 02:11 PM

TheJusticeBringer

enthusiast

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 70

Why is it that you cannot be extremely good at cash games, MTTs, and SNGs at the same time? It seems that when you try to master one of the formats your performance in the others suffer. I'm sure at the top of your head you can name multiple MTT beasts who are cash game fish, and vice versa. Come to think of it, I cannot think of a single player who plays all formats at a top level. Even the nosebleed players admit that when they try to become more proficient at mixed-games their NLHE game suffers.

Is this just a limitation of the human mind? Are there some pros that I failed to take into consideration?

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02-23-2015 , 02:13 PM

freshtodeathx

enthusiast

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 53

Um Gus Hansen...

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02-23-2015 , 02:34 PM

SootedPowa

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 3,344

I'm good at streetfighter 2 but not mortal kombat

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02-23-2015 , 03:07 PM

RaiseAgainst

adept

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,142

Doesn't jungleman qualify? He plays HS hypers as well as cash, MTTs, not to mention in several games of poker from what I remember.

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02-23-2015 , 03:10 PM

Jaylee18

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 670

i can pat my head whilst rubbing my stomach at the same time

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02-23-2015 , 03:12 PM

suspectdevice

grinder

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 405

Mrgreen

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02-23-2015 , 03:17 PM

Sammy2bullets

Property of Bobo Fett

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 12,365

I suck at all formats of poker on all levels.

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02-23-2015 , 03:22 PM

jimbuddy21

newbie

Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 21

I think jungleman and ike haxton do all formats well cause its the only way they can get action by spreading it across mtt, cash and sng's

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02-23-2015 , 03:27 PM

ArtyMcFly

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Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 13,256

Specialization on one thing tends to be better than "spreading your talents around".

The difference between tourneys and cashgames is akin to the difference between sprinting and marathon running. It's not a perfect analogy, obviously, but both things require different skill-sets.
See also: pitchers and batters (or batting and bowling, if you're a cricket fan). Very few people excel at both.

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02-23-2015 , 03:43 PM

#10

ratslla

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 5,532

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh....php?t=1508230

This guy? Not sure if he plays sng's tho

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02-23-2015 , 03:47 PM

#11

I'm a Sick Man

centurion

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 141

Chainsaw nr.1

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02-23-2015 , 03:49 PM

#12

Menace ll Society

journeyman

Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 349

when an individual is talented and puts in the required time/effort to try and master a particular craft, it's hard for those who are equally talented but don't put in the same effort to try and master said craft to compete with them. someone who is trying to become top tier at multiple crafts simply doesn't have the time or energy to keep up.

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02-23-2015 , 04:56 PM

#13

bjsmith22

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 2,235

I think you're just confused because people always talk about how different mtt vs sng vs cash are, and then a lot of people harping about how certain players have no chance of crossing over etc, etc.

In reality all the truth that you need to take away from it is that each format of poker is incredibly different from the others, especially at the highest levels, and just because you can beat one format doesn't guarantee that you will be any good at another

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02-23-2015 , 05:14 PM

#14

smokybacon

banned

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,390

Phil Ivey? Then again, he's dropped way behind the competition in recent years.

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02-23-2015 , 05:45 PM

#15

BustoPro

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,668

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheJusticeBringer

Why is it that you cannot be extremely good at cash games, MTTs, and SNGs at the same time?

Of course you can. David Benefield among othes did so during the poker boom, mostly by getting started in tournaments for whatever reason and then becoming cash game beasts later.

Going the other way involves internalizing a bunch of non-intuitive ICM and stack size concepts which I think many cash game players don't want to bother with, because there isn't much point if they are doing well at the cash games. But there's nothing to prevent them from doing so. It's still poker at its foundation.

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02-23-2015 , 05:52 PM

#16

unlucky4me

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 4,079

Phillip Dennis Ivey

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02-23-2015 , 07:08 PM

#17

Amit Makhija

newbie

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 27

There are only 24 hours in a day.

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02-24-2015 , 01:57 AM

#18

David Sklansky

Administrator

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,096

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly

Yes and no. The average major league pitcher is in the top one percent of the human race in batting. The average Olympic marathoner can beat 99% of humans in the hundred yard dash.

Meanwhile, most decatholon gold medal winners couldn't beat the high school champion in any individual event they compete in.

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02-24-2015 , 02:02 AM

#19

PeteBlow

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 14,559

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Sklansky

Meanwhile, most decatholon gold medal winners couldn't beat the high school champion in any individual event they compete in.

Yeah, right.

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02-24-2015 , 02:08 AM

#20

bjsmith22

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 2,235

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteBlow

Yeah, right.

Surprisingly, according to wikipedia, the JR WR for discuss throw is 10m (about 15%) farther than the listed decathalon best(for adults).

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02-24-2015 , 02:14 AM

#21

Kralex

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 2,349

I'm pretty sure, even though he's down on cash games, that Viktor qualifies.

A lot of people qualify for this don't they?

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02-24-2015 , 02:59 AM

#22

PeteBlow

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 14,559

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjsmith22

Surprisingly, according to wikipedia, the JR WR for discuss throw is 10m (about 15%) farther than the listed decathalon best(for adults).

DS said champion, not record holder.
You will always get the odd freak high school athlete who ends up being a world beater as an adult.

The discus thrower you mention is on the all 2000s high school track and field team. He won Discus and Shot putt in one PanAm Junior Championships.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mason_Finley

How you love your extremes.

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02-24-2015 , 03:33 AM

#23

bjsmith22

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 2,235

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteBlow

Are you being serious? Do you actually think DS was using the word champion with such a strict definition as you are? He said "the highschool champion"; you could only get as specific as: the highschool aged competitor with the best record, which by definition is the Jr world record holder. Regardless of how correct I am, your point still does not contradict what DS said.

Enough with the semantic bull**** man, you clearly don't have the chops for this so stop trying.

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02-24-2015 , 03:51 AM

#24

narcissisten

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 119

Several cash game specialists can probably beat HU SNGs (regular and turbo speed), it's just no money for these guys?

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02-24-2015 , 03:57 AM

#25

PeteBlow

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 14,559

Yes, I am being serious. Unlike you, I don't think DS would be taking an argument to ridiculous extremes as to mean all time records. That would've been so obvious it wouldn't have been a point worth making.
As you appear to have ignored, I mentioned how junior level sports will always have the freak young athletes who achieve great times/distances, but they don't come around that often.

In 1980 and 84, Daley Thompson would've won a number of titles in the High School championships, as would O'Brien, Sebrle etc in their respective years.

You'll have to argue with yourself from now on.

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