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Old 07-12-2018, 01:07 PM   #51
inmyrav
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Re: View: stop using "rec player" as a description

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Originally Posted by mrsticky View Post
A pro makes a living off of or a sizable portion of their yearly income comes from playing.
Professionalism connotes far more than making a living off of something. Licensing, accounting, travel, hiring staff. Your definition is not accepted by the majority of society.
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:03 PM   #52
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Re: View: stop using "rec player" as a description

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Professionalism connotes far more than making a living off of something. Licensing, accounting, travel, hiring staff. Your definition is not accepted by the majority of society.
We’re talking about pros here. There’s lots of professionals out there in various fields who don’t exhibit professionalism. Language is funny.
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:17 PM   #53
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Re: View: stop using "rec player" as a description

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Professionalism connotes far more than making a living off of something. Licensing, accounting, travel, hiring staff. Your definition is not accepted by the majority of society.
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We’re talking about pros here. There’s lots of professionals out there in various fields who don’t exhibit professionalism. Language is funny.
I think the point is that in almost any other area, to be labeled a "Professsional" usually requires, or at least usually encompasses, things such as a degree (university or otherwise), some kind of board certification, specialized training, apprenticeship, etc. etc.

There aren't many fields where you can just unilaterally self-declare "I'm a Pro". Poker Player, Magician, Comedian, things like this where they're all solitary endeavors come to mind, where there is no real barriers to entry to being a "Pro".
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:51 PM   #54
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Re: View: stop using "rec player" as a description

The barrier to entry to becoming a “Pro” is making money.

To me the dividing line is more that there are fields where the activity can be done as a hobby as well as a form of income.
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:20 PM   #55
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Re: View: stop using "rec player" as a description

I play on a so-called "rec site"- Carbon. And having been told I "play like a girl" among other things, I don't have a problem being called a "rec." Just don't call me late for dinner.
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:25 PM   #56
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Re: View: stop using "rec player" as a description

I played 1/2 last weekend for 6 hours and made $312.

I'm a pro poker player.
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:44 PM   #57
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Re: View: stop using "rec player" as a description

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Think you missed my point. You're considering outside expenses, overhead, etc.

When a Plumber goes to work he doesn't say "OK looks like I owe you $500 for fixing your toilet, and I'll pay you $300 more to fix that leaking faucet if you want".

Losing "Pro" Poker Players can go to "work" and lose $500 every day, solely from their "work". Not considering outside living and lifestyle expenses.
I disagree. If I'm a pro poker player, I can lose money by making a mistake playing a hand, or just pure variance.

If I am a plumber, I can make a mistake that causes a house to flood that would then cause me to have to repair the damages. I could also do my job perfectly but accidentally drop a tool that breaks a toilet, thus costing me money.

Pro anything can lose money in someway doing their job.
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Old 07-13-2018, 07:24 AM   #58
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Diamond Re: View: stop using "rec player" as a description

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^^^ nah, I don't really care if it's meant to be nice or not.

I think it's disingenuous because in the context it is mostly mean it to imply "that player is different than me."
As does your preferred term of "casual player". Your post isn't about not making the distinction, it's about what we call it.

This is a "you" issue - for some reason, you think there is a big difference between calling someone a "rec player" and a "casual player", and I believe you'd be hard-pressed to find more than a handful of people that think there is any difference, let alone a big enough one to worry about.
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Old 07-13-2018, 08:00 AM   #59
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Re: View: stop using "rec player" as a description

Idk why people started using "rec"
Its way more fun to call them fish and donkeys looool
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Old 07-13-2018, 10:02 AM   #60
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Re: View: stop using "rec player" as a description

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As does your preferred term of "casual player". Your post isn't about not making the distinction, it's about what we call it.

This is a "you" issue - for some reason, you think there is a big difference between calling someone a "rec player" and a "casual player", and I believe you'd be hard-pressed to find more than a handful of people that think there is any difference, let alone a big enough one to worry about.
I'm not saying that there is a problem making a distinction.
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Old 07-13-2018, 10:18 AM   #61
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Re: View: stop using "rec player" as a description

casual > rec. rec literally means losing mentality.
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Old 07-13-2018, 10:45 AM   #62
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Re: View: stop using "rec player" as a description

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Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
As does your preferred term of "casual player". Your post isn't about not making the distinction, it's about what we call it.

This is a "you" issue - for some reason, you think there is a big difference between calling someone a "rec player" and a "casual player", and I believe you'd be hard-pressed to find more than a handful of people that think there is any difference, let alone a big enough one to worry about.
I was intrigued right up until the let's call them "casual player's"
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:04 AM   #63
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Re: View: stop using "rec player" as a description

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casual > rec. rec literally means losing mentality.
It literally doesn’t mean that.
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:11 PM   #64
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Re: View: stop using "rec player" as a description

it means non serious player. like not preparing to win.
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:27 PM   #65
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Re: View: stop using "rec player" as a description

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it means non serious player. like not preparing to win.
To many false assumptions in there to calculate.
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:38 PM   #66
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Re: View: stop using "rec player" as a description

I view it as a spectrum or more accurately a Venn diagram with a lot of overlap. I certainly don't view "rec" as always an insult or a diminishment even if it's used that way a lot.

The first group are the pros and I guess semi-pros. They file as professional poker players for tax purposes. Obviously, if a pro (not a retired one) poker is their occupation. Some pros and all semi-pros may not rely on poker as their primary or sole source of income. The tax distinction is not a firm one as some don't pay their taxes or chose to not file as professionals. That said, except when tax laws are onerous, it's a pretty objective way to classify pros.

The second group are the Regs that usually overlaps mostly with the group above but can also include the group below. It refers to the high volume of time they devote to their job, second job or hobby. There are good regs and "bad regs."

Recs are mostly recreational players ie people who play for fun and want to win but don't depend on it. Some overlap may occur with those that win enough to file as a pro but most of these guys aren't going to quit their day job. Poker is mostly a hobby or a past-time. Some in this group are better than some in the group(s) above. Those that self-identify as recs vs. regs are probably more honest with themselves. lol.

Fish can be in any of the above groups.

*sorry for the wall of text and the redundacy.
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:39 PM   #67
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Re: View: stop using "rec player" as a description

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Originally Posted by AllJackedUp View Post
I'm not saying that there is a problem making a distinction.
Right, that's exactly what I said. In other words, this thread is about using "casual player" rather than "rec player". Like I said, this is a "you" issue - you're probably the only one, or in a very small minority, who even see a big difference. As others have said, calling them fish is obviously a derogatory term. Recreational player is a much nicer term, and casual player really isn't any different.

As I type this out, I start to wonder if we're being leveled - is that really what this thread is about? Calling people "casual players" rather than "rec players"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuma View Post
casual > rec. rec literally means losing mentality.
I don't think literally means what you think it means.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuma View Post
it means non serious player. like not preparing to win.
As does casual player, in this context.

Obviously, recreational and casual are different words and can be ascribed different meanings. But I don't think either of the two words have a clear enough meaning in a poker context that we can point to one being a great deal better or worse than the other. To me, both casual and recreational imply a player that isn't taking the game all that seriously.
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Old 07-13-2018, 03:02 PM   #68
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Re: View: stop using "rec player" as a description

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it means non serious player. like not preparing to win.
Recreational: relating to or denoting activity done for enjoyment when on is not working.

Many people find winning to be more enjoyable than losing.

Players in a basketball rec league can still take it seriously and try to win.
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Old 07-13-2018, 03:21 PM   #69
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Re: View: stop using "rec player" as a description

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As I type this out, I start to wonder if we're being leveled - is that really what this thread is about? Calling people "casual players" rather than "rec players"?
Not a level, that is what my post is about.

I'll summarize it again, because I think you're still missing the point.

When we use the term "recreational player" we use it as a distinction to say "that poker player there, he/she is different than me."

When we say "Hey, I'm not a rec like that guy" the context strongly implies that the user is the opposite of a rec. IE a pro. That's disingenuous, because a huge portion of the users are not pros.

My post is not about the rec/casual player or their feelings.
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Old 07-13-2018, 04:04 PM   #70
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Re: View: stop using "rec player" as a description

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Originally Posted by AllJackedUp View Post
Not a level, that is what my post is about.

I'll summarize it again, because I think you're still missing the point.

When we use the term "recreational player" we use it as a distinction to say "that poker player there, he/she is different than me."

When we say "Hey, I'm not a rec like that guy" the context strongly implies that the user is the opposite of a rec. IE a pro. That's disingenuous, because a huge portion of the users are not pros.

My post is not about the rec/casual player or their feelings.

"Hey, I'm not a casual like that guy."





It finally happened. I always kinda thought it would eventually. It used to be so common, on 2+2 and otherwise, to call players who play badly "fish" or "donkey". Then, and I'm not sure exactly how it happened, it became common to call players who play badly "recs" because "fish" or "donkey" were too offensive. Finally someone has determined that "rec" is too offensive and instead players who play badly should be called "casuals." I wonder if this will catch on and become the new common term. And if so, I wonder how long it will last and what the next term after it will be when it is determined that "casual" is too offensive.

Last edited by Lego05; 07-13-2018 at 04:14 PM.
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Old 07-13-2018, 04:14 PM   #71
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Re: View: stop using "rec player" as a description

i get the merits of “rec” supporters and how dumb/trivial this is.

but it’s a nuance for sure and worth being discussed.

“Rec” means to have inferior strategies, and a rec is EXPECTED to be a losing player.

“Casual” defines time, or effort, but mainly it’s temporal. You can crush a game casually, or play in a game full-time but with casual effort. It also hints at being a cool person, casual is better liked than intensive. It doesn’t give away that the player sucks.

Language is non binary, this will never be perfectly solved. But why not use the term that carried a positive diction, instead of the one that hints that they might be inferior?
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Old 07-13-2018, 04:25 PM   #72
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Re: View: stop using "rec player" as a description

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Originally Posted by Tuma View Post
“Rec” means to have inferior strategies, and a rec is EXPECTED to be a losing player.

“Casual” defines time, or effort, but mainly it’s temporal. You can crush a game casually, or play in a game full-time but with casual effort.
I just don’t see these connotations and differences like you do. The terms strike me as fairly synonymous.
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Old 07-13-2018, 04:49 PM   #73
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Re: View: stop using "rec player" as a description

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I just don’t see these connotations and differences like you do. The terms strike me as fairly synonymous.
They are synonymous strictly in definition. It's how people use them which gives them their meaning.

I'm also willing to accept that I am a lunatic.
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Old 07-13-2018, 05:21 PM   #74
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Re: View: stop using "rec player" as a description

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i get the merits of “rec” supporters and how dumb/trivial this is.

but it’s a nuance for sure and worth being discussed.

“Rec” means to have inferior strategies, and a rec is EXPECTED to be a losing player
This is the part that you just made up in your head and could easily apply it to the "Casual player". There are a lot of former collegiate athletes and lower level professional players that still play in Rec leagues, or play recreationally. They are still quite good and leaps and bounds ahead of the competition.

It doesn't support your argument that the "Casual player" MUST be a losing player so you won't admit it.
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Old 07-13-2018, 05:31 PM   #75
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Re: View: stop using "rec player" as a description

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They are synonymous strictly in definition. It's how people use them which gives them their meaning.
Then it doesn’t matter what word you decide to use, as that new word will be used the same way and take on that connotation.
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