I agree with everything you wrote and it took me a long time to even see what you see on how to approach people.
edit: multiple ways have benefits, i'm probably gentler now than I should be, who knows...

Your personal threats and insults are duly noted, though since I have a lot of extensive experience dealing with special people like you I also know pretty much exactly what will happen and exactly what you will end up doing. No need for a flux capacitor for these insights.

You will do nothing. That is what people of your kind do. Nothing. You are paranoid and obsessed with your theories, but you have no attachment to the real world, and the real world never fits into theories like expected, which is one of the cooler aspects of humanity. You will not find any followers because you are not a leader or even a character that can generate loyalty to anything.

You likely have something to do with this poker site you mention in vague terms, but probably not an actual financial interest. Whatever that is it best meets the universe inside your mind, so to you it will be a world changing success if only the rest of the world would understand what you are trying to teach them. This thread has a higher concentration of people who have sympathy for you because you seem to support bitcoins (though that is more by happenstance, as no doubt your paranoia predates bitcoins), and you can see the success you are having here. Nothing.

Online poker sites have more to them than how much rake they charge, and some of the reasons why Pokerstars stands out is they offer a superior product with superior security and customer support. Other sites, including rake free ones, have come and gone, and the market has shown that there is more involved than the simple math of rake.

With regard to your specific threats - people like you are all talk, and you have no ability or resources or motivation to actually do anything, so what I will do is in 6 months or so bump this thread and at that time we will see how you are doing on your crusade, and I expect to find that you have not been active on 2+2 in any meaningful way for months at that time. You will have vanished and been forgotten having moved on to different areas to preach, with perhaps a new theory.

This thread will die soon as there is not too much more that can be done in it. I had my fun. Some of the bitcoiners had some fun with me and justifiably vented at me which is a healthy part of debate. You went too far as you likely have done many times before with your insults and threats, but I always expect that behavior when dealing with personality types like yours.

You can post more of your manifesto of vague "obvious facts" if you like, but once the personal threats happen I get bored, because no real fun can be had with any future debate, and these debates for me are about having a little fun. I will break form and not end with "All the best" because that would be inappropriate and inaccurate.

i like how this thread culminated into a battle of two crackpots from each of the polar ends of the bitcoin ideological spectrum.

I liked whosdaboss' 8 consecutive post uninterrupted string at the end .....

Truly Skallagrim-worthy.

Adyo/newguy takes things to a level that not many others can be compared to. This is just his latest meltdown - his last one had him starting multiple gimmick accounts pretending to be an admirer of his, and also starting multiple threads accusing me of stealing from players, and then taking the same crap to Reddit.

His Bitcoin talk seemed a little better this time around - he started off with the usual Nash business, but there wasn't quite as much of the condescension and the "everyone has to agree before I'll explain more" nonsense, and it even seems like he's starting to grasp that the reason people aren't understanding his points is because of the way he communicates, not other's stupidity.

But I think his presence is an overall detriment to the conversation, so it's probably good that he got himself banned (not by me) earlier rather than later this time.

And actually Bitpay just removed all their fees (if you don't need dedicated support): https://bitpay.com/pricing

And I just noticed that BitPay states that their service is used by over 40,000 businesses and organizations.

If true, that is a significant achievement.

nah man, the chances of this number being real is around 0 (give or take 0, of course).

I'm pretty sure that number is real. Part of BitPay's business model now is to acquire a large database of businesses so that they can package and sell data and analytics in myriad ways, a la a lot of successful startups these days. Why else would they offer 0 fees?

Also I personally know of one major global nonprofit company that will be working with BitPay this year (my best friend is their social media director; I personally harangued him for a year to get with bitcoin). They wouldn't get into bed with a company like BitPay if they were small potatoes/without thoroughly vetting them.

Bitcoin users if not all, will send emails to places they buy at frequently and it probably gets added to the Business's list of todo.

I send emails once in awhile where it would definitely make it convenient for me.

whooooosh!

Maybe they just want everyone to accept bitcoin so it will be more valuable. Creating a currency is the easy part, getting people to accept it for goods and services is the hard part.

edit: they also sell premium support, so it's not like they get no income.

are you a troll?

I've been thinking about this comment. Mason makes an important point I think, and knowing they likely have some wisdom in this regard I think it's prob a good marker to think about the point in which someone like him gets on board to its adoption into the mainstream.


This article won't seem completely related, but when ethereum comes out it will be more so: http://www.gernot-gawlik.de/wp-conte...tion-costs.pdf
From the Intro:
Conclusion:
There is a lot of these "costs" that both business and the users will save with the coming technologies.

This article is quite dense: http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post...to-cryptostock

It highlights some new coming projects (it seems many projects are set to launch with ethereum or soon after):

http://letstalkbitcoin.com/ released its own currency based reward program this kind of thing is expected to optimize its community by giving a market type system to its participators. This kind of thing could be quite easy to set up for 2 + 2. It might be something we want to discuss as well as the quality of contribution would likely increase dramatically as a result.

I'm seeing white papers for the optimization of forum use in this regard. Having a system like this would help raise awareness for many aspects of the poker community and economy in relation to the new technology.

http://www.reddit.com/r/poker/commen...as_blocked_me/

I can't imagine this would be a problem if sites take proper measures to conceal fund sources/destinations. But then at what point do they (a money service business) just get shut down for not knowing where the coins are going?

Bitcoin has lost 30% of its value in a month.

It's comical that the same people that analyze rakeback deals wouldn't care about this volatility.

What's comical is that after all these posts you still don't understand that neither the site nor the players need to hold bitcoin long enough to be exposed to its volatility. You buy it, immediately send it to the poker site, they immediately sell it and credit your account in the desired fiat currency.

A serious question:

In that scenario what significant advantage does a person have for converting US funds to bitcoins to then sell immediately to the site as opposed to just sending the US dollars to the site?

Apply that to Dell. If a person does not hold bitcoins then why would he buy them (I assume at a small cost) to immediately use them to buy a computer with bitcoins instead of just using a credit card (which includes rewards/purchase security/interest free time to pay) one gets for using that option.

If you want bitcoins to go mainstream, don't they need to be something other than a middle currency that a person holds for seconds to avoid any volatility.

WRT Dell customers, I think that that avenue appeals to people who are all-in on BTC, and perhaps make a large part of their income in BTC.

For poker sites, you raise a good point. I can think of a few reasons why someone would want to use a cryptocurrency as a middle currency:

• Faster than other methods for depositing / withdrawing (especially for U.S. players)
• More granularity in amounts (I might want to try a site out but not risk too much)
• No other UIGEA-legal options
• Lower fees than other methods

Those people will be holding a lot of their bitcoins, so I would assume 2014 has not been as happy a year for them in terms of volatility.

How does one get the non all-in mainstream users to adopt bitcoins? Seems like holding them certainly has volatility risk (which the mainstream probably does not love), and using them as an instant middle currency is a bit impractical as a form of commerce.

Perhaps, though an American who does not hold bitcoins but insta trades them for deposits/withdraws facing some systemic legal risk (not for personal prosecution, but from banks closing accounts) since they must hold their base fiat currency somewhere, and it seems like the financial institutions are looking more carefully at those types of transactions.

Regardless, poker players should have a relatively minimal impact on whether bitcoin becomes mainstream, so I am still curious how the mainstream enjoys them in a practical manner without exposing themselves to the volatility.

costs sites a nickel in btc to pay you your winnings that hit your wallet in a few hours, as opposed to some sites that charge you a large fee for a check that takes months to receive.

why is this an impractical form of commerce to you? The volatility has actually chilled out a large amount this year. We have had a low of around 400$ and a high of 650 with months of pretty stable value. Pretty sure the volatility was much worst in the early years but this kind of volatility is not unique to bitcoin- it happens to gold and other commodities that bitcoin is competing against as stores of value. The Mainstream isn't really into bitcoin yet but the seeds are being planted and when it does hit mainstream it will reach the stability we all want to see. I do concede to you that I'm really interested in seeing how bitcoin balances its role as a store of value and as a currency. The poker players obv need it as a currency and by using it as such you get around the volatility that comes with it. I don't know everything about bitcoin either but I'm going to see what other people's thoughts are about the advantages average joe has using bitcoin for something like shopping at Amazon and the legal risks are a valid concern.

Gold is hardly a mainstream form of commerce, other than people selling stolen stuff to pawn stores. Not many places (aside from some jewelery stores) accept bullion as a form of currency.

Bitcoin value has bounced 25%+ in weeks, and like it or not, that is not the type of volatility that Joe Average wants for his savings account, so if you want Joe Average to use bitcoins then he will likely need to have it make practical sense as a form of commerce (which I can see in some cases for poker sites for Americans), and also not have to be exposed to the volatility.

Seed being planted is fine and dandy, but I am still curious what the marketing approach will be to get Joe Average to use bitcoins to buy a computer from Dell.

Exactly for your first post that's exactly what I'm talking about. Gold is way to store wealth. Bitcoin people want it to both do that and function as an easy to use currency. Therefor the people who think bitcoin as the next way to store wealth are pumping the volatility around. I pointed out that volatility is currently decreasing and it has to decrease a little more to start getting on par with fiat currencies- which will happen the more stable and accepted the idea is but until bitcoin figures out what it wants to do it will stay volatile and i admit that I don't know the answer to this besides the fact that other stuff is volatile as well; currencies compared to other currencies are volatile to each other- fiats are depreciative when you count inflation

You forgot a very key reason:
* Anonymity. You can theoretically be completely anonymous depositing and cashing out if you use sites that only use bitcoins like seals and just meet people anonymously through localbitcoins using tor and a burner phone. Even if you don't go to that extreme, using bitcoins in any part of the cashin/cashout process will still make you one degree more anonymous. There's really no reason to not have that privacy, the current US administration is pretty lax on playing online poker but what if a republican gets elected next term and goes nuts?