I know we had a slight peak again in covid but jus seems be only slow steady death pokerstars is like a ghost town these days and i know gg poker is keep some players but whole poker scene seems like it's emrunning out if steam unfortuantly do other people agree ir not?

No.

According to Custom Market Insights (CMI), The Online Poker Market size was estimated at USD 85.4 Billion in 2022 and is expected to hit around USD 170 Billion by 2030, poised to grow at a compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of 12% from 2022 to 2030.

Lol, it is dying. Totally ridiculous with RTA, etc.

Lol no. Stars is a ghost town because they messed up the new rb system and players moved to other sites. GG is massive 888 ipoker seems to be doing just fine. I think you are one of those ladies who can't beat the game and is bit salty tbh lol.

The cash games are donezo but tourneys are fine. Cash is a system more than a game. Dickheads have figured out a system they are content working for the time being (playing like a rock, mass multitabling, and collecting rakeback) where they are not playing the game anymore.

It's sad, and will only get worse.

Btw this is the simplest way for me to put this.

Someone please post a screenshot of the (global) stars lobby during peak traffic on a weeknight. I'm in a region locked pool and have no idea how bad it is.

Liquidity is drying up everywhere. Not as much free cash sloshing around in the system.

Online you play against bots, RTA users, and stables full of cheaters. Live you play against literal idiots. I’ll mess around on Global here and there if I’m bored but it’s a no brainer.

That's an opinion though, not a verified fact. Only way to tell if it's truly dying is with graphs and win rates over a big sample. If high win rates are still possible, or better yet common (probably not I'm guessing), it's not dying.

I guess, but the common forms of online cheating are literally impossible to pull off live. Also thought you could see how much the top players are making on tracked sites and it’s not as much as you’d expect from the biggest winners playing the biggest stakes.

If you’re killing it online in 2024 that’s awesome and you’re probably a really strong player but for the avg enthusiast the online grind isn’t highly profitable. Online mtts are still enjoyable, despite knowing you’re inevitably getting cheated out of some money.

It's been pretty bad on stars, one of the tournies I was looking at 6-8 years ago (and during covid) had 2k runners and a 35k prize pool. It is now a 5-8k guarantee with 2-300 runners. Even relative to last year, the player pool has gone down quite a bit.

I'm sure it's ultra competitive now with all the access to solvers and free info on youtube (a lot of which are trash, some of which are very good). And the declining traffic is definitely not a good sign. The question still remains. Is it still possible to win at 5bb+ at 200nl+ and get decent volume? If it is possible is it REALISTIC? Just cause the best regs are able to make that happen doesn't mean you and I can. At least not without a lot of work.

I will say that when people say live was good at aroudn 2018ish , im sure live is prolly better now due to how much tougher it is to get online games and the %

the reason its proly better to playlive now than it was in 2018 isnt because live has gotten worse just tougher to find gamed and the % of players overall good and bad online

I don't see how online poker will expand, except I guess you can have large numbers of bots.

This sums up 2024 poker so well.

What is defined as poker nowadays?

I think onlinepoker is like a gas flame ready to go off.

Arguments against online is dying:

- apps have been popping hard since covid. I assume you didn't account for them? Apps are unlikely here to stay. You run into problems of getting grifted by clubs/agents/other opponents combined with essentially zero security. At some point I hope people will get back to normal sites.

- all the RTA/super user/bot non sense is hopefully at its most awkward point. There is tons of technology and tools available. Catching cheaters of any kind has never been easier. I don't think the sites have found a way to implement it yet. But once they do the games will likely become cleaner than they ever been. Likely that will get more app players and live players to start playing online (again?).

- think there has to be some correlation between online and live poker. Live poker is likely to keep growing as of now. Poker is for sure becoming more and more main stream.

Fyp.




Ok I'm half serious

Even in PA the MTT scene is getting rough. Certainly not growing or getting any easier. So many regs who were crushing in the first couple years are now losing / breakeven over the past year or so.

As far as I can tell absolutely nothing is being done to combat cheating or promote the game to new players, so I don't really see this trend changing.

I think everything reaches an equilibrium eventually. If region locked pools like PA are soft, then enough regs will pile in until it no longer becomes soft. If games are too tough and no one makes a meaningful hourly anymore, regs will exit until it becomes viable again. The long term trend however is definitely not looking good and I'm not sure what needs to happen to reverse it.

Naw once I got a taste of playing on apps during covid I’m not going back

If you playing online these days, you are either an online End Boss, a cheater, a bot, or really f.....g stupid. Live poker is still ridiculously soft, especially if you use a little bit of game/table selection.

There are still TONS of fish on American-facing sites. Approximately 95% of my fellow U.S. online players are massive fish/whales. I can't speak to Stars, GG and the others.

There are countless more U.S. fish that want to play online, but don't, because they don't want to mess with crypto and/or want to feel secure about their money staying on the site and/or whatever other irrational reasons fish have for their behavior. Back when Global Poker still allowed PayPal deposits, it was softer up to $200 SnG, $200 MTT (the highest offered in both) and 1k nl, all of which ran readily, than PokerStars circa... 2006(?). This was in 2017-2018; I doubt things have changed too much in this regard since then.