lol you can't be serious

ahahah, surely you jest.

first off, thanks for the reply. much more well thought out, legit, and informative than i expected (figured i'd get mostly glib 'duh' type responses and maybe a partially helpful post.

this is interesting to me so i'll continue w/ my thoughts and a few other questions

yes, i def get that it's not 'serious' collusion, but i don't think it's "somewhat accidental." i think it's pretty clear if player A&B are sharing a bankroll they'd clearly make a conscious choice to either check when they'd normally bet, or push others out of the pot.

also, if players A&B have X% of each other, i'd think that there's actually a better chance that they play each other very hard. usually poker players who are also familiar with each other (at least from my experience), play more aggressively and more imaginatively than those who aren't friends/acquaintances from poker.

they may even see this as a discount on fancy plays and make it more fun and an even better game (nobody seems to have mentioned this positive impact on the game from this).

also "more often than we think" isn't all that specific (though ofc i know you nor anybody else can give an accurate read here, i would like to see if anybody has knowingly played against 2+ players in the same game - or done this themselves - who either a) share a bankroll, or b) have some direct financial interest in each other's results). i seriously can't think of 1 time that i've heard/known about this. now, i dont' play super high, but i've played up to 25/50nl and 300/600limit (volume wise, most of my hands have been between 20/40 - 100/200 limit though).

finally on this note, do you think this should go for crossbooking? personally i don't think that matters, but it's another type of "off the table" exchange of $ between players.

i guess i still don't see how this is so easy to come up. and that's the crux of the issue imo. if this happens a bunch, then the incentive to incur the cost/annoyance/difficulty in regulating/enforcing limon's idea in some way would be much higher than if it's in a few isolated instances.

and i'd think actually that it would be worse in lollivedonkaments since so much action trading / buying/staking etc. happens at large wsop type events. i'd think it's worse since the stakes are way higher than in a cash game (well most cash games). on the flip side, as you mentioned, the biggest payout tourneys are the biggest buy ins w/ large fields, so extremely unlikely this situation would occur.

either way though, i still don't have a sense for what kind of frequency we're talking about here. like, let's take the whole continental US. maybe there's something around 1/4-1/2% of the population that plays poker "regularly" or "seriously" and would possibly match the type we're talking about here. so that's 750k-1.5m people i'd guess.

the distribution of players heavily falls on the smaller stakes and that makes it very unlikely they're staked. and even if they are, the cost (effect on the game limon is trying to mitigate) is super low so who really cares about that?

this leaves some # of "potential people" to whom this applies.

so if you were about to sit in a 5/10nl game and found out that 2 playeres were sharing a br or taking %s of each other, would you sit and play? it seems the collusion that would occur, even "light" collusion or whatever, could be relatively easy to spot. so another thing is even if it DOES happen "frequently enough", it would have to be very very minimal collusion for it to go unnoticed (again, low cost/effect on the game).

and yea, this is the whole kit n' kaboodle. if it's some large enough % of people who have some large enough impact on the game, then somebody somewhere is going to want to organize or spearhead a way to do this.

but the reality is that, at least from what i can tell, there's a *HUGE* cost/issue/problem with organizing and enforcing this, which means this would really have to be pervasive and a massive issue.

so after reading your response, and writing my wall of text here lol, i'm going to have to say it almost surely doesn't make sense to go through the trials/tribulations to make this idea a reality.

Everyone at commerce is on a team against me

i voted yes even tho i agree it's pretty impossible

and id be scared it would cause bad floor decisions and take away earned money wrongly at times

This rule would kill games in small rooms with small player pools. What poker room manager is going to want to kill one or more of the few games that run in his room?

I play in a fairly small player pool and have caught three teams colluding over the past two years. I've explained, in detail, to poker room managers the action and signals and how the scam works and was carried out. Each time I get the same story "uh, if I don't see it on video, then there's nuthin I do." I've even called scams at the table before they happen -- still nothing.

Something as innocent-appearing as spouses sitting in the same game and protecting each other's position, protecting each other's hands/pots (which means they share equity), and eventually end up best handing someone may make a good game terrible and a mediocre game unbeatable or not worth the time.

Still the floors and room managers do nothing. Why would they? Their job is to make money for the room, and to do that they need games to run. They aren't interested in rejecting customers.

Conflict of interest, don't let them even play on the same tables imo. Just like having roommates being banned from playing the same table. I think that a couple of high stakes players couldn't play on the same tables at online poker cuz they were roommates and it seems like the same thing that should happen here. No clue how to enforce something that could so easily be kept a secret tho.

it doesnt reject customers it just brings the practice into the light. as in the husband/wife scenario, its obv they have a financial interest in each others pots. its out in the open, people can choose to stay or go. and, fwiw, ive never met a husband wife "team" i didnt want to play with forever.

I'm not sure how beneficial it would be, feels like it would just cause problems in general, whether they softplay each other or not, people are always going to be suspicious and would cause some table to maybe break or some weaker players to leave (good players don't give a **** about that)

and probably some whining in tournaments, calling floors or something... I don't see anything good that could come out of that

Limon once again demonstrates how stupid he is. So let's say you limon and some ******ed 2P2 fanboi of yours are on a "TEAM". 9-handed NLHE. How exactly will you take advantage of me you BAD BAD boy?

75% who voted "yes" don't understand how poker works. But hey, it's 2P2

umm... I volunteer to be the guy who teams up with limon to sit in Olaff's game and teach him how effective colluding can be.

O laugh.

Haha, i O laughedMAO

Did Matt Glantz have a piece of both McKeehan and Beckley at the final table of the ME? I heard someone say that he had a piece of McKeehan and by his tweets in support/defense of Beckley, it seems he might have had a piece of him too. They also seemed to soft play each other a little, like when McKeehan folded a flush draw to a small bet.

Of course limon and his fanboi can't answer the question. I'm shocked. Shocked.

I'm not going to publish a blueprint on how to cheat/collude.

Yeah because you have some secret technique no one has ever thought of. Exposing collusion methods publicly will only improve their detection. But you're too stupid to understand that, right?

Here I got one for you. Limontard and Jacktard will "squeeze" me out of pots by raising and reraising. Genius, right? Except after 3d time you do it the whole table will start wondering whats going on and after a brief investigation you two geniuses will be 86d foravah and possibly criminally prosecuted.

O there's 1 more. You will signal your cards to each other. Great, so you will know 2 extra cards. Huge edge bra. HUGE. Also until your signaling gets exposed.

Anything else?

P.S. O and by the way collusion is ALREADY ILLEGAL. So WTF is this stupid thread for?

Limons ego. He's slowly becoming the new Allan Kessler of NVG.

I think the fact that this goof is held as an icon by many in the "poker community" reflects badly on... said community. This guy is a ****ing bumhunting nit who plays 1 hand in 2 hours. His claim to fame? He's done it for 20 years. Wow. Amazing. And you see people actually quote this idiot: "u know man... limon said "some idiocy here" and u know limon knows... after all he made a living from poker for 20 years! u know how few people accomplished that?" *throwup*

fu***n live nits huh, gotta love em right?

actual photo of O'laugh immediately after submitting his impotent rage baby post:

I'll take "who is somebody that got stacked by limon last week?" for $500, Alex.

To even discuss making this a felony is beyond foolish.

Why not wake up?

1- Poker is illegal in most jurisdictions. In your pea brain do you see each state legislature passing your ridiculous law individually, or do you actually think it would be a federal law governing an activity they currently don't authorize?

2- Is it you contention that this law will be so essential that it will sweep across international borders? Games in Madrid, London, and, Macau will adopt your idiotic suggestion?

3- At a time when the USA is barely allowed to play poker online it makes little sense to give the politicians another reason to call poker corrupt. They have no issue now, why tap the glass?

4- In your fantasy world, does a player get extradited from overseas after his non disclosed teamwork is uncovered?

5- Are family members automatically a team?

As a law your suggestion is a joke. A sad joke from a non serious thinker.

Of course, proposing it as a casino rule is even more foolish.

How about a law making it a felony to expose cards?

actually its prob someone i banned from my twitch channel. the level of baby nerd rage when i ban someone is unreal. Ive been threatened with physical violence and told to watch my back multiple times smfh....