Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

News, Views, and Gossip For poker news, views, and gossip

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-30-2012, 05:01 PM   #51
Saklad
Best handicapper in OOT
 
Saklad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: On my way back to the bar
Posts: 5,629
Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirswish6 View Post
so that means that the game should just continue with the same morals of said founder? how ****ing stupid of an argument is that? i guess the usa should reinstate slavery? strip women of rights? why are people so blindly against progress?...


Nope, I agree in that it should evolve in a positive direction. My main point here is the WSOP is not the governing body of the worldwide poker community, which is effectively what OP is getting at. They are a business, operating to profit off of their customers. Your comparison to the USA holds no water as they were not elected by the community to represent us. Why is it their responsibility?

I am in no way against progress for the game we love, but I believe if this approach was taken it would in fact result in some form of a witch hunt.


it is really easy to draw a line when it comes to banning high profile players from playing wsop events. it is blatantly obvious that a number of these people (lederer, ferguson, duke, hamilton) were involved in defrauding the poker community and that is what this discussion is about. its not about banning everyone that has a speeding ticket from playing, its about ostracizing these people that have been directly involved in defrauding our community.


Where will the line be drawn? Who would be responsible for defining said line?

To be clear, my comments above were to play Devil's Advocate, as IMO, it is illogical to think the WSOP is responsible to police the worldwide poker community. That being said, I would be in favor of an overall governing body, to which the WSOP would be held accountable. However, that is not what has been suggested itt.

.
Saklad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2012, 05:02 PM   #52
Acesfullofgarbage
veteran
 
Acesfullofgarbage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,701
Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirswish6 View Post
so that means that the game should just continue with the same morals of said founder? how ****ing stupid of an argument is that? i guess the usa should reinstate slavery? strip women of rights? why are people so blindly against progress? it just blows my mind that people in this thread are in favor of being apathetic as opposed to improving and/or setting positive precedents for a game that we love.

it is really easy to draw a line when it comes to banning high profile players from playing wsop events. it is blatantly obvious that a number of these people (lederer, ferguson, duke, hamilton) were involved in defrauding the poker community and that is what this discussion is about. its not about banning everyone that has a speeding ticket from playing, its about ostracizing these people that have been directly involved in defrauding our community.

Holy ****.....a topic that causes swish to post a serious reply. wp protential, I have never seen this before
Acesfullofgarbage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2012, 05:04 PM   #53
Saklad
Best handicapper in OOT
 
Saklad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: On my way back to the bar
Posts: 5,629
Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
Clearly we need a time machine so we can go back and forbid his involvement before anyone can be banned.
Saklad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2012, 05:06 PM   #54
Il_First_Il
old hand
 
Il_First_Il's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Rome
Posts: 1,382
She is so dumb, hate her
Il_First_Il is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2012, 05:12 PM   #55
MrBump
WINNING
 
MrBump's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: TOP DOWN CHROME SPINNING
Posts: 6,019
Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

OT, but did Epic poker die ?

IIRC, the holding company went bust or something but what about "Epic" poker itself ?
MrBump is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2012, 05:55 PM   #56
StoppedRainingMen
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
StoppedRainingMen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: GOATish measurables
Posts: 47,109
Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

wow swish did it
StoppedRainingMen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2012, 06:07 PM   #57
blastoff
veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,740
Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

wsop can't even keep men out of the ladies tourney, how are they supposed to pull this off
blastoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2012, 06:10 PM   #58
bgddy4972
enthusiast
 
bgddy4972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 62
Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by soon2bepro View Post
Are they gonna ban US congressmen, senators, DOJ officials for harming the game so much? That would make more sense.
All of them yes, and anyone from Wall St for harming the economy thus forcing the DOJ to moneygrab out of the poker community...
bgddy4972 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2012, 06:12 PM   #59
DonkeyQuixote
veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: setting strawman arguments ablaze
Posts: 3,283
Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBump View Post
OT, but did Epic poker die ?

IIRC, the holding company went bust or something but what about "Epic" poker itself ?
Show business ...... ain't no business, ain't no show. There is no "Epic poker itself", and ironically apparently never really was one.
DonkeyQuixote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2012, 06:21 PM   #60
ChicagoRy
 
ChicagoRy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: ColoradoRy
Posts: 20,428
Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

I'm not totally sure on this, but I like the idea of not banning anybody except known tournament cheaters from the WSOP.

However, they should definitely allow, even encourage the rail to be as vocal as they want towards players. It would add interest and probably filter out some of the scumiest people in a more organic way (less "these very few people on some committee decided to ban x, y and z player, but not a, bc and c cheaters" which is more subject to bias, personal interest and results in worse decisions on average).
ChicagoRy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2012, 06:45 PM   #61
StoppedRainingMen
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
StoppedRainingMen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: GOATish measurables
Posts: 47,109
Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoRy View Post
I'm not totally sure on this, but I like the idea of not banning anybody except known tournament cheaters from the WSOP.

However, they should definitely allow, even encourage the rail to be as vocal as they want towards players. It would add interest and probably filter out some of the scumiest people in a more organic way (less "these very few people on some committee decided to ban x, y and z player, but not a, bc and c cheaters" which is more subject to bias, personal interest and results in worse decisions on average).
yea, it's not so much that they don't ban anyone that bothers me more than the fact that the floormen go out of their way to protect players from ppl in this regard. i remember reading around the WSOP after the UB superuser **** went down there were stories of players who confronted hellmuth while they were seated at his table and hellmuth cried to the floormen who threatened penalties against the ppl coming at hellmuth. that **** is just ridiculous
StoppedRainingMen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2012, 06:58 PM   #62
silviodante1
veteran
 
silviodante1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,033
Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

don't ban dead money imo
silviodante1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2012, 07:09 PM   #63
Daniel Ocean
grinder
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 512
Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

Poker ethics=oxymoron? What the he'll let her donate her share of the prize money. She won't win anything anyway.
Daniel Ocean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2012, 07:22 PM   #64
Jzo19
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Jzo19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Miami
Posts: 11,339
Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

lol at poker ethics ....
Jzo19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2012, 07:33 PM   #65
Videopro
Making TV
 
Videopro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Henderson of course.
Posts: 18,508
Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Ocean View Post
Poker ethics=oxymoron? What the he'll let her donate her share of the prize money. She won't win anything anyway.
Epic actually skipped out on payments to a charity, from their charity events.
Videopro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2012, 09:06 PM   #66
SwoopAE
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
SwoopAE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 21,831
Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Professionalpoker View Post
Epic actually skipped out on payments to a charity, from their charity events.
wow i didnt asctually know that, link?

I mean, f annie duke anyway, but thats a new low stealing from a charity
SwoopAE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2012, 09:06 PM   #67
DaycareInferno
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
DaycareInferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,279
Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

no one should ever be banned from any live poker events for anything they did off property.
DaycareInferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2012, 09:27 PM   #68
Bobo Fett
2+2 Ad Man
 
Bobo Fett's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Canada, eh!
Posts: 51,480
Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaycareInferno View Post
no one should ever be banned from any live poker events for anything they did off property.
I suppose that's an easy way out of tough decisions, but that sure wouldn't be my policy if I ran a live tournament. I don't know if I'd ban Annie Duke or not, but I'd certainly reserve my right to refuse entry in extreme circumstances.
Bobo Fett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2012, 09:29 PM   #69
DaycareInferno
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
DaycareInferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,279
Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

extreme circumstances like what? thats what law enforcement is for imo.
DaycareInferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2012, 09:50 PM   #70
Bobo Fett
2+2 Ad Man
 
Bobo Fett's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Canada, eh!
Posts: 51,480
Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

Russ Hamilton comes to mind. How often does law enforcement come into play in poker scandals?

Known repeat card cheats seems like another good circumstance as well.
Bobo Fett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2012, 10:16 PM   #71
YaBoyINthe604
adept
 
YaBoyINthe604's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 719
Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

I'd like to see an all out verbal assault on some of these scum at WSOP, verbally abuse them, not like they can call the grammar police on you, verbally abuse them until they physically assault you therefor you have the right to defend yourself and Will Smith backhand scum like Annie Duke
YaBoyINthe604 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2012, 10:53 PM   #72
vergere
banned
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 99
Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Protential View Post
Bolded = Key.

She clearly has.

Also if it comes to light that lederer/ferguson/etc had knowledge of what was going on, and were a part of it, they should be banned imo.

If they are knowingly willing to run companies that steal from the poker community, and have done things to violate the integrity of the game, why shouldn't they receive bans?

It could be a multi-step process:

Step 1: Ethics committee (picked by players and wsop staff) votes on to have player "Annie D." investigated.

Step 2: Investigation team (voted on by the committee) looks into their history and come up with damning evidence that said player has used poker to wrong players in a fraudulent manner and have "violated the integrity of the game".

Step 3: A jury of wsop staff, and people voted on by the committee, who are unbiased, look at the information presented to them, and deliberate as to whether or not "Annie D." deserves to be banned and if so for how long/ until what conditions are met.


IMO it could be an easy to implement program, transparently done and it would help protect the community.



Results oriented thinking imo.

Just because something is poorly implemented and ends up being useless, doesn't mean that all possibilities of it will be bad as well.
This is not as easy as you would think. You need to pay people to do these things. There would be an appeal process. Lawyers would be involved which increases the price of this process.
vergere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2012, 01:24 AM   #73
Protential
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Protential's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Vegas
Posts: 12,460
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirswish6 View Post
so that means that the game should just continue with the same morals of said founder? how ****ing stupid of an argument is that? i guess the usa should reinstate slavery? strip women of rights? why are people so blindly against progress? it just blows my mind that people in this thread are in favor of being apathetic as opposed to improving and/or setting positive precedents for a game that we love.

it is really easy to draw a line when it comes to banning high profile players from playing wsop events. it is blatantly obvious that a number of these people (lederer, ferguson, duke, hamilton) were involved in defrauding the poker community and that is what this discussion is about. its not about banning everyone that has a speeding ticket from playing, its about ostracizing these people that have been directly involved in defrauding our community.
Well said. (Can't believe you took a 2+2 post seriously) :O
Protential is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2012, 02:23 AM   #74
Kevmath
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: @Kevmath
Posts: 28,213
Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Professionalpoker View Post
Epic actually skipped out on payments to a charity, from their charity events.
The charity that was skipped out on payments was Disabled American Veterans, the charity of the Heartland Poker Tour.
Kevmath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2012, 02:32 AM   #75
MrFizzbin2
grinder
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 547
Lol at all the banning crap. Annie isn't someone I want to go into business with, but if they banned everybody with questionable business ethics the rio would be empty...
MrFizzbin2 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive