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Old 05-30-2012, 09:12 AM   #26
thatsnotplusev
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Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

I don't think she will be banned, but being that she was so deeply involved in running high profile tournaments, she should be imo...

If, just for example, Mike Sexton was stealing money from the WPT, I think people would look at that differently than someone like Chao Giang doing something shady in a cash game, when it came to buying into a big tournament..
Both would be looked down on but I feel like the person more involved with the tournament scene would take a lot more heat..

It would also probably take a lot more to get someone banned from a cash game vs. someone getting banned from a high profile tournament..
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:15 AM   #27
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Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

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Originally Posted by MrBump View Post
Don't ban her.

Let her go and then go and tell her what you think to her face.

I bet no-one does though
This is the key. Essentially, there should be some self policing. If you were affected, let them know. If Lederer wants to show up and play, he should be able to. I hope that most of the people at his table absolutely hammer him. Same goes for Duke. Or Ferguson. Or Hamilton.
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:22 AM   #28
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Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

When did the WSOP become a 'religious' organization??????
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:29 AM   #29
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Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

Too all those of you saying about the shady history of the WSOP, that was then, this is now. Banning these people wouldn't have anything to do with a bizarre "Religious" campaign. It would have to do with common sense.

Do you really think poker can ever be taken seriously as a sport by politicians and the like, while blatant fraudsters, crooks and confidence tricksters are in the poker spotlight? The answer is no. We need to shun people like Duke from this beautiful game of ours, or else we will always be considered degens by the public majority, and lose more and more of our rights to play online poker, and possibly even live poker in the near future. Our game is fragile enough without criminals bogging it down.
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:29 AM   #30
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Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

Dude... you can't ban her...if you ban her then you have to ban most of the people who will enter the tourneys. And you had especially ban Men "the master" Nguyen - for cheating. But you somehow think she is worse?
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:52 AM   #31
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Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

OK Op make a list of people that have been banned from the WSOP and why

then compare
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:02 AM   #32
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Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

If you ban Annie than
Ivey Goes
Dwan Goes
Galfond Goes

Like many said you would add another 50 players at least.

If a company goes bankrupt you dont ban the person from starting another buisiness do you?
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:04 AM   #33
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Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

mediocre live pros who play poker like it's 1988 are good for poker
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:04 AM   #34
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Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

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Originally Posted by lozen View Post
If you ban Annie than
Ivey Goes
Dwan Goes
Galfond Goes

Like many said you would add another 50 players at least.

If a company goes bankrupt you dont ban the person from starting another buisiness do you?
If anything Dwan and Galfond go b4 Duke....popped off about putting up 1M and then oops are bad when called out on it
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:08 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by MichaelScarn View Post
Too all those of you saying about the shady history of the WSOP, that was then, this is now. Banning these people wouldn't have anything to do with a bizarre "Religious" campaign. It would have to do with common sense.

Do you really think poker can ever be taken seriously as a sport by politicians and the like, while blatant fraudsters, crooks and confidence tricksters are in the poker spotlight? The answer is no. We need to shun people like Duke from this beautiful game of ours, or else we will always be considered degens by the public majority, and lose more and more of our rights to play online poker, and possibly even live poker in the near future. Our game is fragile enough without criminals bogging it down.
Exactly.

To others:

Men the master should be banned. He is a known cheater and has done so tons of times at live tourneys. Gtfo.

Dwan/galfond/etc had no knowledge of what was going on at FTP. They did not compromise the integrity of the game.

You guys are trying to compare elephants to peaches and are missing the point.

Although if it is found out that they had intimate knowledge of what was going on, they should be banned.

Maybe Dutch should be banned as well, he has scammed poker players over in the past while connected to a company and lied on its behalf. Could be argued that he has compromised the integrity of the game as well.

This is why we need a well thought out way to ban players who have used poker as a platform to screw players over and thus compromised the integrity of the game (I.e; people with intimate knowledge at ub/FTP, cheaters, etc...).

I'm not saying that all bans should be for life or whatever. It should be a case by case basis and deliberated over diligently before a decision is made.
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:17 PM   #36
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Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

I bet if you gave ferguson/bitar/lederer free entry to the whole series they wouldnt show up. they dont got the guts to face a room full of players they robbed.
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:23 PM   #37
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Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

100% agree with Protential on this
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:31 PM   #38
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Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

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Originally Posted by MichaelScarn View Post
Do you really think poker can ever be taken seriously as a sport
No, I don't think poker will ever be taken seriously as a sport. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy playing. I enjoy reading about it. There is a skill level required to succeed at it. However, the comparison isn't so much with golf than say cooking. Doesn't mean you can't make good money doing it. Doesn't mean people good at it can't be famous. However, if you told Gordon Ramsey that he was engaged in a sport, he'd say, "***** ** ****** ***** ***** ******."

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelScarn View Post
We need to shun people like Duke from this beautiful game of ours
And as much as I enjoy poker, it isn't a beautiful game. It is an unadorned version of Darwinism, where the strong try to take money directly from the weak. It isn't beautiful when you see someone pulling out the last 5s and 10s out of their wallet to try to buy in for the minimum one last time. It isn't beautiful when you watch someone's wife beg him to leave and not rebuy in because she can see that he's totally on tilt and outmatched.

It is fun if the stakes are controlled and you can't lose significant money. However, poker isn't limited that way.

Therefore I'm against the WSOP banning anyone that hasn't violated their rules at their events. That includes Russ Hamilton. Doyle Brunson speculated in his last book that Johnny Moss was so successful in NL over the years because he cheated. Doyle in fact share a bankroll with 2 other players in the 1960s at games in the south. Are you going to ban Doyle? Multi-accounting is cheating. Are we banning everyone who does that too? Or are we banning people if they cheat and are successful over a certain amount?
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Old 05-30-2012, 02:30 PM   #39
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Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

Of course she "should" be banned, shunned, and <insert horrible thing>. In a perfect world, she would be. But we live in a corrupt world full of morons and scumbags*. So she fits right in and will continue on being heralded as a hero.

*The people who run the WSOP are among the most notorious in this regard.
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Old 05-30-2012, 02:36 PM   #40
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Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelScarn View Post

Do you really think poker can ever be taken seriously as a sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10 View Post
No, I don't think poker will ever be taken seriously as a sport. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy playing. I enjoy reading about it. There is a skill level required to succeed at it. However, the comparison isn't so much with golf than say cooking. Doesn't mean you can't make good money doing it. Doesn't mean people good at it can't be famous. However, if you told Gordon Ramsey that he was engaged in a sport, he'd say, "***** ** ****** ***** ***** ******."



And as much as I enjoy poker, it isn't a beautiful game. It is an unadorned version of Darwinism, where the strong try to take money directly from the weak. It isn't beautiful when you see someone pulling out the last 5s and 10s out of their wallet to try to buy in for the minimum one last time. It isn't beautiful when you watch someone's wife beg him to leave and not rebuy in because she can see that he's totally on tilt and outmatched.

It is fun if the stakes are controlled and you can't lose significant money. However, poker isn't limited that way.

Therefore I'm against the WSOP banning anyone that hasn't violated their rules at their events. That includes Russ Hamilton. Doyle Brunson speculated in his last book that Johnny Moss was so successful in NL over the years because he cheated. Doyle in fact share a bankroll with 2 other players in the 1960s at games in the south. Are you going to ban Doyle? Multi-accounting is cheating. Are we banning everyone who does that too? Or are we banning people if they cheat and are successful over a certain amount?
Poker will never be a sport. Sports require a skill set that few posses (especially/absolutely at the top level). If you took an NFL team and they played a team of guys who play on the weekend at the park the NFL players are going to win every time no doubt. You can't say the same thing about poker. As much skill as one at the top level in poker may have, there is still the factor of math/luck/whatever you want to call that plays a role. That's also the reason why poker is as big as it is. It gives the average Joe overweight beer drinking guy the chance to play against the big boys and possibly win. They don't need to be in shape to play the game, have the stamina to run, the arm strength to throw a ball, or the force to run someone over. The average Joe will not beat a professional athlete at their job, but the average Joe can beat a professional poker player at theirs. (insert Pros vs Joes clip here I guess)

Oh and the rest of what Venice said sounds good.
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Old 05-30-2012, 02:36 PM   #41
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Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

Would open up too many cans of worms if you started banning people for things they did not related to the WSOP. Doubt they could pull if off considering they can't even prevent men from playing womens events.
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Old 05-30-2012, 03:57 PM   #42
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Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

I agree with the sentiment, but disagree with the practice. It would be ideal to keep out the Dukes, Lederers, Hamiltons, et al, but I'm not sure where and how the line would be drawn - or who would draw it.
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Old 05-30-2012, 04:02 PM   #43
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Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

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Originally Posted by Doorbread View Post
mediocre live pros who play poker like it's 1988 are good for poker
This, you don't ban fish period.
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Old 05-30-2012, 04:02 PM   #44
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Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

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Originally Posted by ASPoker8 View Post
Of course she "should" be banned, shunned, and <insert horrible thing>. In a perfect world, she would be. But we live in a corrupt world full of morons and scumbags*. So she fits right in and will continue on being heralded as a hero.

*The people who run the WSOP are among the most notorious in this regard.
this AINEC, just look at the ridic amount of fees they have been sneaking in
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Old 05-30-2012, 04:14 PM   #45
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Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

yeah i agree, some people should be banned from wsop. it literally never happens tho.
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Old 05-30-2012, 04:20 PM   #46
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Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

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Right, but my post was a reply to one poster.

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Originally Posted by CANUCKEH44 View Post
Basically what I am saying is if you ban a Poker Player for one indiscretion or another. No one is left to play.
This reply isn't just to you, but for all the posters who seem to think you can't ban one person because then you have to ban 50 or 100 others or even more - no, you can decide where to draw the line.
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Old 05-30-2012, 04:23 PM   #47
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Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

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if russ hamilton is "banned" then the full tilt crew and annie should be out.
When was Russ Hamilton banned? IIRC, he simply doesn't play to avoid the backlash.

OP, is there any one person who has a lifetime ban from the WSOP?

Why is it the WSOP's responsibility to police the poker community as a whole?

And I'd like to second what a poster said above. Are you not aware that a man who allegedly killed numerous people is the same person who started the WSOP to begin with?
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Old 05-30-2012, 04:34 PM   #48
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Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

Wasnt there a rule implemented that if you got caught smoking pot in the parking lot during breaks you were perma-banned?
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Old 05-30-2012, 04:34 PM   #49
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Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

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When was Russ Hamilton banned? IIRC, he simply doesn't play to avoid the backlash.

OP, is there any one person who has a lifetime ban from the WSOP?

Why is it the WSOP's responsibility to police the poker community as a whole?

And I'd like to second what a poster said above. Are you not aware that a man who allegedly killed numerous people is the same person who started the WSOP to begin with?
so that means that the game should just continue with the same morals of said founder? how ****ing stupid of an argument is that? i guess the usa should reinstate slavery? strip women of rights? why are people so blindly against progress? it just blows my mind that people in this thread are in favor of being apathetic as opposed to improving and/or setting positive precedents for a game that we love.

it is really easy to draw a line when it comes to banning high profile players from playing wsop events. it is blatantly obvious that a number of these people (lederer, ferguson, duke, hamilton) were involved in defrauding the poker community and that is what this discussion is about. its not about banning everyone that has a speeding ticket from playing, its about ostracizing these people that have been directly involved in defrauding our community.
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Old 05-30-2012, 04:42 PM   #50
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Re: View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP

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And I'd like to second what a poster said above. Are you not aware that a man who allegedly killed numerous people is the same person who started the WSOP to begin with?
Clearly we need a time machine so we can go back and forbid his involvement before anyone can be banned.
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