View: Annie Duke Should be banned from WSOP - Page 3 - Poker News

so that means that the game should just continue with the same morals of said founder? how ****ing stupid of an argument is that? i guess the usa should reinstate slavery? strip women of rights? why are people so blindly against progress?...

Nope, I agree in that it should evolve in a positive direction. My main point here is the WSOP is not the governing body of the worldwide poker community, which is effectively what OP is getting at. They are a business, operating to profit off of their customers. Your comparison to the USA holds no water as they were not elected by the community to represent us. Why is it their responsibility?

I am in no way against progress for the game we love, but I believe if this approach was taken it would in fact result in some form of a witch hunt.

it is really easy to draw a line when it comes to banning high profile players from playing wsop events. it is blatantly obvious that a number of these people (lederer, ferguson, duke, hamilton) were involved in defrauding the poker community and that is what this discussion is about. its not about banning everyone that has a speeding ticket from playing, its about ostracizing these people that have been directly involved in defrauding our community.

Where will the line be drawn? Who would be responsible for defining said line?

To be clear, my comments above were to play Devil's Advocate, as IMO, it is illogical to think the WSOP is responsible to police the worldwide poker community. That being said, I would be in favor of an overall governing body, to which the WSOP would be held accountable. However, that is not what has been suggested itt.

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05-30-2012 , 05:02 PM

#52

Acesfullofgarbage

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,736

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirswish6

so that means that the game should just continue with the same morals of said founder? how ****ing stupid of an argument is that? i guess the usa should reinstate slavery? strip women of rights? why are people so blindly against progress? it just blows my mind that people in this thread are in favor of being apathetic as opposed to improving and/or setting positive precedents for a game that we love.

it is really easy to draw a line when it comes to banning high profile players from playing wsop events. it is blatantly obvious that a number of these people (lederer, ferguson, duke, hamilton) were involved in defrauding the poker community and that is what this discussion is about. its not about banning everyone that has a speeding ticket from playing, its about ostracizing these people that have been directly involved in defrauding our community.

Holy ****.....a topic that causes swish to post a serious reply. wp protential, I have never seen this before

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05-30-2012 , 05:04 PM

#53

Saklad

Best handicapper in OOT

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 5,835

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobo Fett

Clearly we need a time machine so we can go back and forbid his involvement before anyone can be banned.

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05-30-2012 , 05:06 PM

#54

Il_First_Il

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,400

She is so dumb, hate her

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05-30-2012 , 05:12 PM

#55

MrBump

WINNING

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6,018

OT, but did Epic poker die ?

IIRC, the holding company went bust or something but what about "Epic" poker itself ?

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05-30-2012 , 05:55 PM

#56

StoppedRainingMen

Player Hater of the Year

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 53,623

wow swish did it

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05-30-2012 , 06:07 PM

#57

blastoff

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 2,740

wsop can't even keep men out of the ladies tourney, how are they supposed to pull this off

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05-30-2012 , 06:10 PM

#58

bgddy4972

enthusiast

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by soon2bepro

Are they gonna ban US congressmen, senators, DOJ officials for harming the game so much? That would make more sense.

All of them yes, and anyone from Wall St for harming the economy thus forcing the DOJ to moneygrab out of the poker community...

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05-30-2012 , 06:12 PM

#59

DonkeyQuixote

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 3,283

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBump

OT, but did Epic poker die ?

IIRC, the holding company went bust or something but what about "Epic" poker itself ?

Show business ...... ain't no business, ain't no show. There is no "Epic poker itself", and ironically apparently never really was one.

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05-30-2012 , 06:21 PM

#60

ChicagoRy

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I'm not totally sure on this, but I like the idea of not banning anybody except known tournament cheaters from the WSOP.

However, they should definitely allow, even encourage the rail to be as vocal as they want towards players. It would add interest and probably filter out some of the scumiest people in a more organic way (less "these very few people on some committee decided to ban x, y and z player, but not a, bc and c cheaters" which is more subject to bias, personal interest and results in worse decisions on average).

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05-30-2012 , 06:45 PM

#61

StoppedRainingMen

Player Hater of the Year

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 53,623

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChicagoRy

yea, it's not so much that they don't ban anyone that bothers me more than the fact that the floormen go out of their way to protect players from ppl in this regard. i remember reading around the WSOP after the UB superuser **** went down there were stories of players who confronted hellmuth while they were seated at his table and hellmuth cried to the floormen who threatened penalties against the ppl coming at hellmuth. that **** is just ridiculous

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05-30-2012 , 06:58 PM

#62

silviodante1

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Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 3,041

don't ban dead money imo

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05-30-2012 , 07:09 PM

#63

Daniel Ocean

grinder

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 512

Poker ethics=oxymoron? What the he'll let her donate her share of the prize money. She won't win anything anyway.

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05-30-2012 , 07:22 PM

#64

Jzo19

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lol at poker ethics ....

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05-30-2012 , 07:33 PM

#65

Videopro

Making TV

Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 19,240

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Ocean

Poker ethics=oxymoron? What the he'll let her donate her share of the prize money. She won't win anything anyway.

Epic actually skipped out on payments to a charity, from their charity events.

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05-30-2012 , 09:06 PM

#66

SwoopAE

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Professionalpoker

Epic actually skipped out on payments to a charity, from their charity events.

wow i didnt asctually know that, link?

I mean, f annie duke anyway, but thats a new low stealing from a charity

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05-30-2012 , 09:06 PM

#67

DaycareInferno

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no one should ever be banned from any live poker events for anything they did off property.

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05-30-2012 , 09:27 PM

#68

Bobo Fett

Carpe Diem

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 56,895

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaycareInferno

no one should ever be banned from any live poker events for anything they did off property.

I suppose that's an easy way out of tough decisions, but that sure wouldn't be my policy if I ran a live tournament. I don't know if I'd ban Annie Duke or not, but I'd certainly reserve my right to refuse entry in extreme circumstances.

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05-30-2012 , 09:29 PM

#69

DaycareInferno

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extreme circumstances like what? thats what law enforcement is for imo.

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05-30-2012 , 09:50 PM

#70

Bobo Fett

Carpe Diem

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 56,895

Russ Hamilton comes to mind. How often does law enforcement come into play in poker scandals?

Known repeat card cheats seems like another good circumstance as well.

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05-30-2012 , 10:16 PM

#71

YaBoyINthe604

adept

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 772

I'd like to see an all out verbal assault on some of these scum at WSOP, verbally abuse them, not like they can call the grammar police on you, verbally abuse them until they physically assault you therefor you have the right to defend yourself and Will Smith backhand scum like Annie Duke

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05-30-2012 , 10:53 PM

#72

vergere

banned

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 99

Quote:

Originally Posted by Protential

Bolded = Key.

She clearly has.

Also if it comes to light that lederer/ferguson/etc had knowledge of what was going on, and were a part of it, they should be banned imo.

If they are knowingly willing to run companies that steal from the poker community, and have done things to violate the integrity of the game, why shouldn't they receive bans?

It could be a multi-step process:

Step 1: Ethics committee (picked by players and wsop staff) votes on to have player "Annie D." investigated.

Step 2: Investigation team (voted on by the committee) looks into their history and come up with damning evidence that said player has used poker to wrong players in a fraudulent manner and have "violated the integrity of the game".

Step 3: A jury of wsop staff, and people voted on by the committee, who are unbiased, look at the information presented to them, and deliberate as to whether or not "Annie D." deserves to be banned and if so for how long/ until what conditions are met.

IMO it could be an easy to implement program, transparently done and it would help protect the community.

Results oriented thinking imo.

Just because something is poorly implemented and ends up being useless, doesn't mean that all possibilities of it will be bad as well.

This is not as easy as you would think. You need to pay people to do these things. There would be an appeal process. Lawyers would be involved which increases the price of this process.

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05-31-2012 , 01:24 AM

#73

Protential

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Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 12,460

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirswish6

so that means that the game should just continue with the same morals of said founder? how ****ing stupid of an argument is that? i guess the usa should reinstate slavery? strip women of rights? why are people so blindly against progress? it just blows my mind that people in this thread are in favor of being apathetic as opposed to improving and/or setting positive precedents for a game that we love.

it is really easy to draw a line when it comes to banning high profile players from playing wsop events. it is blatantly obvious that a number of these people (lederer, ferguson, duke, hamilton) were involved in defrauding the poker community and that is what this discussion is about. its not about banning everyone that has a speeding ticket from playing, its about ostracizing these people that have been directly involved in defrauding our community.

Well said. (Can't believe you took a 2+2 post seriously) :O

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05-31-2012 , 02:23 AM

#74

Kevmath

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Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 28,242

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professionalpoker

Epic actually skipped out on payments to a charity, from their charity events.

The charity that was skipped out on payments was Disabled American Veterans, the charity of the Heartland Poker Tour.

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05-31-2012 , 02:32 AM

#75

MrFizzbin2

grinder

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 547

Lol at all the banning crap. Annie isn't someone I want to go into business with, but if they banned everybody with questionable business ethics the rio would be empty...

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