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Old 08-07-2016, 02:49 PM   #1
Dominic
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Venetian Poker room is being cut in half...

...to make way for Stadium Blackjack...whatever that is.

Went to play the Sunday $200 and there are curtains up covering the right side of the room...they said they are going to put up walls to separate the blackjack from the now, half-as-big poker room.

Wonder what they're going to do for the next DSE...

Can't be good that the V is losing half their tables.
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Old 08-07-2016, 03:14 PM   #2
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Re: Venetian Poker room is being cut in half...

makes sense. lots of empty space in that room outside of DSE. they will just break out more tables and move some slots when DSE rolls around.

if you want to see what stadium blackjack will be like, check out the enormous baccarat game they have at palazzo. it will be video blackjack but with a live dealer dealing from one of those forever-shuffling neverending shoes to 30 people at a time and then the cards are digitally represented on your screen. good for newbies, likely slow and frustrating for seasoned gamblers.
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Old 08-07-2016, 04:19 PM   #3
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Re: Venetian Poker room is being cut in half...

I'm guessing this will unfortunately involve some job losses for poker room staff?
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Old 08-07-2016, 04:38 PM   #4
Dominic
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Re: Venetian Poker room is being cut in half...

They can certainly fit more tables into the space they have now, so maybe they won't lose half the tables
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Old 08-07-2016, 05:11 PM   #5
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Re: Venetian Poker room is being cut in half...

I heard they were moving the Poker room anyway. Somewhere upstairs.
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Old 08-07-2016, 05:15 PM   #6
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Re: Venetian Poker room is being cut in half...

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Originally Posted by robrich View Post
I'm guessing this will unfortunately involve some job losses for poker room staff?
They're probably also cutting their employees in half.
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Old 08-07-2016, 07:29 PM   #7
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Re: Venetian Poker room is being cut in half...

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They're probably also cutting their employees in half.
sounds painful.
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Old 08-07-2016, 07:38 PM   #8
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Re: Venetian Poker room is being cut in half...

Hopefully they cut the ones who came up with the policy where you have to post when you late reg
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Old 08-07-2016, 08:02 PM   #9
Wilbury Twist
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Re: Venetian Poker room is being cut in half...

Tournament blackjack? Okay, but if we see Kenny Eininger, Fred David, Ron Saccavino, Dennis Noviskey, et al at the tables, let's run for the hills.
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Old 08-07-2016, 08:10 PM   #10
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Re: Venetian Poker room is being cut in half...

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sounds painful.
lmao...I'm so easily entertained
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Old 08-07-2016, 08:36 PM   #11
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Re: Venetian Poker room is being cut in half...

good no big loss
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Old 08-07-2016, 09:22 PM   #12
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Re: Venetian Poker room is being cut in half...

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Originally Posted by arcdog View Post
Hopefully they cut the ones who came up with the policy where you have to post when you late reg
I'd rather they get rid of the employees who decided to erase most people's saved-up comp dollars last year but I reckon they're the same people in charge of cutting the room in half now.
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Old 08-07-2016, 10:28 PM   #13
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Re: Venetian Poker room is being cut in half...

This vid doesn't play through for me but it's good enough. I can't find info on how many players, 30 seems way high, but at $5/hand the longer it takes the better if you want to get drunk in LV really cheap.

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Old 08-08-2016, 06:07 AM   #14
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Re: Venetian Poker room is being cut in half...

Last time I checked, there were simply too many poker tables in market in Vegas. So I assumed market would contract and many more 2nd tier rooms would just close.

Sounds like times are a changing at the V. Previous poker room Manager (K. Raymond) was arguable best in the business on multiple talents. One of the those was getting casino exec buyin on incremental benefits of poker and thus resources for room. Only major poker room manager I know of that ever talked casino exec into TAKING OUT existing slot banks to expand poker. unheard of. I think she retired several years ago. Sounds like new crew there has more traditional relationship with casino exec. i.e. poker is red headed step child of casino floor space, always has been always will be.


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Originally Posted by Howard Beale View Post
This vid doesn't play through for me but it's good enough. I can't find info on how many players, 30 seems way high, but at $5/hand the longer it takes the better if you want to get drunk in LV really cheap.
sort of off topic but since you bring it up.

Stadium Seating E tables is concept US companies actually copied from China .

Innovated by Jay Chun founder of LT Gaming / Paradise Entertainment (publicly traded on Hong Kong exchange Stock Quote HKSE:1180 )

http://www.ltgame.com/index.aspx



LT Gaming built the first stadium solution to help solve baccarat table cap problem in Macau and made a Shipload of money in the process. The stadium size can scale to whatever. Some in Asia are 200 seats plus.

Last edited by PTLou; 08-08-2016 at 06:31 AM.
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Old 08-08-2016, 08:54 AM   #15
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Re: Venetian Poker room is being cut in half...

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Originally Posted by PTLou View Post
Sounds like times are a changing at the V. Previous poker room Manager (K. Raymond) was arguable best in the business on multiple talents. One of the those was getting casino exec buyin on incremental benefits of poker and thus resources for room. Only major poker room manager I know of that ever talked casino exec into TAKING OUT existing slot banks to expand poker. unheard of. I think she retired several years ago. Sounds like new crew there has more traditional relationship with casino exec. i.e. poker is red headed step child of casino floor space, always has been always will be.
The Venetian poker room's new management has completely botched their job. They inherited the busiest room on the Strip (about tied with the Bellagio) and have quickly mismanaged it to 4th according to my most recent survey.

2+2 Magazine: Status of Las Vegas Poker- Spring, 2016


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Venetian
What a collapse.

The Venetian has nobody to blame but their own management. Kathy Raymond retired as Executive Director of Poker Operations in February of 2015. Since then, new management has continuously made decisions which have driven players away, including raising the rake, cutting comps, and taking away the coffee station among other actions. The sum of these actions has sent a message to players that the Venetian is no longer a player-friendly poker room.

Looking at previous years’ Spring survey numbers gives some perspective on how far the Venetian has dropped.

2016: 12 tables
2015: 27 tables
2014: 28 tables
2013: 27 tables
2012: 19 tables
2011: 29 tables
2010: 33 tables

From 2010 to 2015, the Venetian always finished #1 in the survey (tying in the anomalous year of 2012). They averaged 27.17 tables.

12 tables running is about a 55% drop in action. Even with the increase in maximum rake from $4 to $5, the room has to be looking a drop in cash game rake revenues between 40% and 50% if a 55% drop in action is accurate in the long term. I doubt the cuts in comps, free coffee, or anything else can make up for that.

Here’s another simple way of looking at the numbers. A year ago, the Venetian had more 1-2 no-limit hold ‘em games (13) than they had total games this year (12). They’ve driven away their core customers.
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Old 08-08-2016, 10:08 AM   #16
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Re: Venetian Poker room is being cut in half...

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Originally Posted by Dynasty View Post
The Venetian poker room's new management has completely botched their job. They inherited the busiest room on the Strip (about tied with the Bellagio) and have quickly mismanaged it to 4th according to my most recent survey.
You are assuming their job was to keep the room busy.
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Old 08-08-2016, 10:51 AM   #17
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Re: Venetian Poker room is being cut in half...

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You are assuming their job was to keep the room busy.
I hear this regularly as players are complexed by what appears to be incredibly stupid stuff some poker rooms do.

But I can assure you if casino exec wanted to cut any or all poker they would just do it , vs some long term plan to slowly chase customers away

But even with reduced support from casino exec, a room can always be run in an optimal way

Prev mgmt did that better than anyone in poker.

I don't know current mgmt so can't say but from recent results I'm guessing they were blatantly anti-GTO in a lot of important spots.

"Running a poker room is sorta like running an Italian restaurant "
Vito Casucci , circa 2009

Some operators seem to make it way too hard and get in their own way .
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Old 08-08-2016, 11:05 AM   #18
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Re: Venetian Poker room is being cut in half...

The room started with 39 tables. They expanded to 59 tables. Outside of 6 weeks in the summer, and a few other special events they almost never needed more than 39 tables (this was true from the moment they expanded). So the idea that eliminating these 20 tables reflects a change in the business operations of the room simply isn't the case. I think it reflects more on the idea that the expansion to 59 tables was never warranted in the first place.

Nor does eliminating 20 tables that usually aren't being used necessitate staff reductions because those tables weren't requiring staffing anyway.
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Old 08-08-2016, 11:22 AM   #19
benjamin barker
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Re: Venetian Poker room is being cut in half...

Isn't the general idea that Venetian is owned by Sheldon Adelson so 2p2 is pleased with it's misfortune?
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Old 08-08-2016, 12:24 PM   #20
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Re: Venetian Poker room is being cut in half...

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Originally Posted by benjamin barker View Post
Isn't the general idea that Venetian is owned by Sheldon Adelson so 2p2 is pleased with it's misfortune?
Maybe for some . If you are pro online then you are certainly anti Sheldon

Discussion more about what happened at V and why. Sheldon largely irrelevant to that.

He probably spends about as much time thinking about live poker as you do thinking about the temperature on Jupiter.
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Old 08-08-2016, 01:34 PM   #21
Slowta
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Re: Venetian Poker room is being cut in half...

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Originally Posted by benjamin barker View Post
Isn't the general idea that Venetian is owned by Sheldon Adelson so 2p2 is pleased with it's misfortune?
No because it is a minimal amount of revenue to Sheldon and it really is about supporting the players and dealers.
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Old 08-08-2016, 02:53 PM   #22
PTLou
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Re: Venetian Poker room is being cut in half...

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Originally Posted by psandman View Post
. I think it reflects more on the idea that the expansion to 59 tables was never warranted in the first place.
You are not one who I will question on live poker ops in and around Vegas as you are usually correct

But that's sort of results oriented thinking

Couple things churning around poker world 2011 prior to V expansion in 2012ish. So future was not known with precision as it never is (insert non preposition)

Black Friday, Aria opens and crushed on execution.

Sometimes go big or go home is correct.

If Aria would have spewed their launch ( they didn't ) or V stunted Aria growth (they didn't ) , totally different world for V then and now.

More recently ... How has Wynn re- launch gone thus far.

Say what you want about Steve Wynn, but dude knows how to run an Italian restaurant .

It has been verified ITT that poker room and Italian restaurant are basically same business .

Last edited by PTLou; 08-08-2016 at 03:09 PM.
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Old 08-08-2016, 03:09 PM   #23
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Re: Venetian Poker room is being cut in half...

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Originally Posted by Dynasty View Post
The Venetian poker room's new management has completely botched their job. They inherited the busiest room on the Strip (about tied with the Bellagio) and have quickly mismanaged it to 4th according to my most recent survey.

2+2 Magazine: Status of Las Vegas Poker- Spring, 2016
What the reduction in table #s seems to have done is remove a real competitive advantage the V poker room had over pretty much every other room on the Strip: In my experience, it was easier to quickly get a seat in the lower rung NLHE games ($1-2 or $1-3) there versus any other room.

Seriously, the V was the most reliable "quick" seat for a recreational player; a big factor in deciding where to play, other things being pretty much equal over all.

Two things had a cumulative effect: Based upon my visit on Friday night, there were fewer $1-2 tables spread and the room no longer had any balance, spacious feel or esthetic appeal, resulting in a longer wait than in the past and a less pleasant playing environment.

The new Wynn room will see some gain .... parking is very convenient, the rom is very nice, and the lines are now competitive with the V.

(The MGM properties' poker basically shot themselves in the parking lot for me; I don't care if "all I have to do is show a local DL", the lines and perceptions are terrible.)
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Old 08-08-2016, 03:18 PM   #24
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Re: Venetian Poker room is being cut in half...

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Originally Posted by psandman View Post
... So the idea that eliminating these 20 tables reflects a change in the business operations of the room simply isn't the case. I think it reflects more on the idea that the expansion to 59 tables was never warranted in the first place.

....
My trip experience this weekend says differently.

Have you visited the new set-up ? This is not just simply subtraction, I think the market appeal of the room to both local rec players and walk-in traffic has been affected.

Hint, the new main poker entrance is around the corner from the main casino floor, and much farther from the sports book as well.
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Old 08-08-2016, 03:22 PM   #25
psandman
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Re: Venetian Poker room is being cut in half...

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Originally Posted by Geezer Soze View Post
My trip experience this weekend says differently.

Have you visited the new set-up ? This is not just simply subtraction, I think the market appeal of the room to both local rec players and walk-in traffic has been affected.

Hint, the new main poker entrance is around the corner from the main casino floor, and much farther from the sports book as well.
I don't think any judgments about the appeal of the room make any sense until they actually complete the work. Obviously the current situation looks like a mess. And maybe when complete your objections will be valid ... but now is to early to judge.
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