No, that isn't the point actually. The point is that this is very common place in Hollywood because of the power differential between the people who run Hollywood and the people who want to break into and stay in the business. The fact that it's not happening in 100% of instances isn't even worth discussing once we acknowledge that it is happening and that it's the biggest open secret in Hollywood which it is.

You can spin it anyway you want in your head to absolve you from you part in the whole mess but everything in reality is connected. If you watch TV and movies you support studios and execs like Harvey Weinstein and are part of the problem. Anyone who supports Hollywood supports the power differential that is in place that makes these actions so common place. This is why people are hypocrites and delusional...bc they don't want to look at their own mess and admit the truth. That would require giving up mainstream TV and movies in order to not be a hypocrite. Why not just follow people on Instagram and Youtube that entertain you and send them donations directly for their works? Anytime you create "haves" and "have nots" you create a power differential that creates a space for abuse of power to take place. Being part of the solution is owning your part in it and working to fix it even a little at a time, that first takes admitting the truth which is that we as a society create the monsters that we then vilify. They make movies about the dark side of our psyche and we get our emotional highs off that while pretending that isn't actually a part of us. Then when we see bad stuff in the world we project all the blame outwards rather than recognizing that our very displacement of the emotions we feel is the problem.

Being ignorant to the fact that we are creating the world as we see it does not absolve us from our responsibility as human beings to wake up and change what we see by starting with ourselves first.

This isn't directed at you specifically either Bobo. It's directed at myself first and foremost, and then anyone else who reads it.

Wow, great post.

I stand by my first paragraph with regard to his statement that "you had to do sexual favors to make it in Hollywood".

However, you have me rethinking the rest of my stance. The only thing I take issue with is how common place you suggest the problem is. Not that I necessarily disagree with it; I don't know. And I don't think most people do. So I'd suggest that if we are supporting a system as corrupt as you say it is, it's at least partially out of ignorance. Willful ignorance? Perhaps. Much like when we patronize stores, restaurants, and other businesses that are unethical in many ways. Or make food choices that are bad for sustainability. Or purchase cars that are bad for the environment.

I'm not saying the ignorance takes away our culpability. Most of us (definitely myself included) could research and make much more responsible choices. But there are also so many other areas of life where we could contribute and make the world a better place - we each have to make choices, and not every social aspect is going to get the attention it deserves. But when we make such choices, we undoubtedly lose some of our right (if we ever had one) to criticize those who have gained from our poor choices.

I still don't think Matusow using a sweeping generalization with his "hypocrites" remark is entirely fair, and it's a little counter-productive. But you've made me see a different side of the issue. Thanks.

My apologies to everyone else for taking us off track from berating both Tweeters. Carry on.

http://literary-devices.com/content/hyperbole

Twitter is maybe best for some literary devices because of briefness. Some people are using literature forms even in 21st century without tags
<hyperbole>Everybody is literal on 2+2</hyperbole>

Yeah, yeah, I know. I think I alluded to that possibility a couple of times already.

However, hyperbole is often lost on others once you get a reputation for taking outrageous/controversial positions. Also not always the best literary device when commenting on a sensitive subject.

But I'll admit that I have a weakness for taking things too literally.

There's a certain irony about talking about making more responsible and sustainable choices on a forum dedicated to Poker...

I totally agree though - and I agree loads with the point LucidDream made about not supporting Hollywood and supporting creators on Social Media.

Most of my entertainment viewing comes through YouTube, but they are killing that community too - and the dick-suckers are out-playing the original creators.

YT de-monetized Casey Neistat's video raising money for the victims of the Las Vegas shooting stating "It does not advertise on videos corresponding to disasters etc" however, the Jimmy Kimmel video (not a fundraiser, just a video about the shootings) has a GMC ad on it?

edit: sorry for derail.

Mike's tweet may overreach a bit,but only in the bizarro world we live in now can he be attacked for it.The ''casting couch'' is as old as the movie industry itself.It was as much an open secret in the 30's,40's and 50's as it is today.If sitcoms and award show host's knew enough about Harvey's thuggery to satirize it but major players like Streep,Clooney et al. deny knowing, the scarlet H fits them to a t.I'm sure Selbst, in all her SJW huff interpreted Mike's tweet as an attack on victims who waited to speak out.I believe she's mistaken,go figure.

Last time i disagreed so much with someone was when i was arguing with a femist for jihad. I you are living in q bubble similar to the one in hollywood.

Wait, wat. Being from a small European country I couldn't care less how the stuff I watch is made in Hollywood, as long as it's good. It's up to Hollywood to fix their ****, not up to me, a random consumer living half a planet away.

Stop trying to make everyone feeling guilty for stuff they didn't do, and castrate the actual predators that pull this **** with other people.

Very well written post. I agree with a lot of it, though I think it's a stretch to equate Harvey Weinstein with consumers. Are most of us willfully ignorant and will we continue to give Hollywood business even after these sexual harassment allegations have come to light? Yes, we are guilty but that hardly makes us just as complicit as Weinstein and other scumbag executives. It's important to acknowledge our part but to assign equal blame would be marginalizing what people like Weinstein have done.

Hollywood is also far from unique when it comes to the existence of power differentials. You mention social media as an alternative but similarly, there are established YouTubers, Instagrammers, etc and there are those who are trying to break in. Just recently Andy Signore, a co-creator of ScreenJunkies (well known for their "Honest Trailers" videos) was fired after a whole bunch of coworkers and fans came out publicly about being harassed. I'm sure there are others like Signore who are abusing their power/celebrity, they just haven't been caught yet. And these power imbalances exist in most industries, in most people's jobs. It's far beyond just entertainment.

What's true of the whole isn't true of the parts. Human beings are all willing to make choices to their own benefit that come at the expense of others - the difference is in scale.

Suspecting that you're one of tens of millions of people enabling harvey to exchange sex for an acting gig just doesn't register on the radar in terms of it's consequence relative to almost anything we do on a day to day basis. If there was some kind of way of knowing that you buying a ticket to his movie resulted in 1/1000th of a rape I'm willing to bet most people would not go to see his movies, but that's a world away from what viewing a movie of his actually represents (especially when you add uncertainty into the equation).

It's not even close to the equivalent of someone who lives a life of comfort completely giving up on showing any restraint in satisfying their every whim. Why wouldn't he just hire an escort? There're tons of women seeking out those kinds of arrangements and he could have a personal assistant bring them them his room - there's no reason to pressure an unwilling participant down that path. And why is he being so cavalier about reaping the entirety of these 'benefits' without giving other stakeholders their cut? It's clearly fraud in spirit if not in law.


The fact that people are all flawed doesn't mean it's hypocritical to ever criticize someones choices.

From a evolutionary stand point,more hypocritical groups will over run groups who are exhibiting less hypocritical behavior.
Please excuse me for making my first two posts in a drunken state.

ugh. yeah. agree.

Vanessa's brand of self-loathing and then projecting that type of neurosis on people around her is getting really old.

But she is so toxic, it is best to just let her drown in her own hate and keep her at arm's length.

LOL.

that is a very interesting opinion.

The real question is why Vanessa or in fact anyone would follow Matusow? The man is bat crazy, Why waste your mind reading anything he has to say?

Even if you're not following someone on Twitter their posts can still show up on your home feed due to someone else you follow liking/retweeting/replying to it.

I couldn't agree more. I used to follow him because I follow a lot of people in the poker community, but had to just stop because he kept posting such wild, ignorant rubbish.

Same goes for Cate Hall, even though she's the other end of the political spectrum.

I like watching both of them, they seem like nice enough people, but some of the rubbish they come out with is too tilting for words.

matusow has always been crude and offering of sarcastic opinions. the main thing i take away from this tweet-off is that he doesn't attack anyone specifically...don't see how unabashedly sharing his view makes him delusional or pathetic.

So when I bought Rounders, I was participating in rape? I'm the hypocrite?

Mike sounds like literally every other white, middle aged republican... they say whatever they want and do not give a damn what people say. Yeah, its crass, yes its unsympathetic..

and it would be shocking for those who are unaware... but honestly how the heck could you have not known this is going on? There have been reports of this in the entertainment industry for as long as I can remember.

What's even more disgusting is that people will continue to support hollywood (dvd sales, movie theaters etc) despite knowing what they know. thats truly disgusting.

If Harvey Weinstein somehow produced Rounders 2, I would go and see it.

how can anyone take selbst's side here when she just insults him without even explaining what exactly is it that makes him "a disgusting, delusional and downright pathetic human being"?

he's absolutely correct with regards to the quid pro quo trades involving aspiring actors and actresses and those in power in hollywood.

So now that weinstein has been fired is it safe to support hollywood? I wouldn't want to incur anymore of your sanctimonious crap by going to a movie this weekend.

Just because you give something back to the person you raped or sexually harassed doesn't make it not rape or sexual harassment. Someone agreeing to perform sexual acts because they're told they won't make it in this business by someone powerful doesn't make it consensual. It's coerced.

Us guys have a hard time understanding what it might be like for these women. Let me try to see if I can help with that.

I'm assuming you're a straight guy. Let's say you're driving one night when you're speeding. He rattles off a list of citations he's going to give you that would result in you losing your license and you need to drive to function in your every day life. Without it you'd lose money, maybe your job, time with your family. But there's an option. You can suck his **** and he'll let you go with just a warning. You have no way of proving he said this. You can try to fight it but you'll still get the citations and have to wait to go to court, present your case, etc. He also has a gun and for all you know hell just outright kill you if you don't do what he says. If he's willing to do that why wouldn't he stage a scene to silence you so you can't tell anyone. so you agree to do what he says... and in return you get off with a warning. Would you call that a "quid pro quo trade"?

I think Selbst is the one who came out of this as being less smarter then The Mouth. She looks like a tool attacking him like that, IMO. If you don't have anything nice to say, she was probably raised different then the rest of us.

except these women are not driving one night and an officer breaks the law and offers you to suck him off in order to get off with a warning.

they go out to dinner with a big time executive/director, over dinner he says he has a big role and makes a pass at her back at his place. she has sex him thinking she'll get the role. it works. she becomes gets the role and goes up the hollywood ladder.

it is most certainly not the case that they're completely innocent oblivious to this. some women use sex to get roles, some don't. is there coercion and rampant sexual harassment in the industry? absolutely.

but still, i don't know what vanessa selbst is reacting to. she just calls him names, but she doesn't say why. is it because she thinks mike thinks it's not wrong? is it because she thinks mike is victim shaming? this is the part that confuses me.