Hey folks, I'm posting here to raise awareness regarding the new proposed gambling regulation which will be of interest to any grinders/recreational players based in Ireland. The most meaningful stipulations regarding poker include the following:

1) Ban on inducements/vip schemes (decent chance this gets revised based on the wording in the debates so we might end up being all right here)
2) Max bets of €10 per game and max winnings of €3,000 per game (this basically makes it impossible to play poker for meaningful stakes if we are limited to €10 buyins).

Now they do offer an exception for sports betting and horse racing of course where there are no restrictions on bets and winnings. The justification for this is that sports betting and horse racing involve skill whereas casino games and poker do not involve any skill apparently. I can understand the motivation to set a limit for online slots but it is obviously not appropriate for poker and just pushes Irish players onto unregulated platforms.

This is going to get voted on in the Seanad (second parliamentary house) in three weeks and then finally in the Dail (first parliamentary house) a couple of weeks after. If worst comes to the worst, its basically GG for poker in Ireland by mid October. However there is a decent chance, poker does not end up being included in the 'relevant game' section which have restrictions if those voting can obtain an understanding that poker is a skill based game and that many people make a living from it in Ireland

If you are significantly impacted by this, you may wish to 'politely' contact the TD's and Senators who will be dong the voting in the coming weeks (https://www.oireachtas.ie). It would be a very simple change to the bill to just not include online poker in the 'relevant game' section which stipulates these restrictions. Also, the bill only narrowly passed the first round of voting so it's not a done deal just yet.

Thx for the heads up, I kind of expected some bullshit like this from our nanny politicians. I want to clarify before I go on that this does not affect me with my level of gameplay but it is about the freedom to play as we choose.

They rather punish everyone for the failings of the few whether its food, gaming, alcohol or other things we enjoy. Love the cop out trying to protect betting on horse racing saying it is skill. I guess we just have to use some of our skill when it comes to election time, Harris can fk off along with the other fascists.

"when the first freedom falls we are all doomed".

At least your beef is grass fed

Pokerstars is owned by Flutter, which also owns PaddyPower Skybet etc and is HQ'd in Dublin. You could email the CEO peter.jackson@flutter.com and ask him to put the case for poker being a skill game. It always seems to be the players who have to do the heavy lifting in these cases of over-regulation rather than the operators.

They have already done so at length but the minster behind the legislation is quite hostile to any input from the gambling industry. It would be simple to just exclude poker from the 'relevant game' section as they have done so with sportsbetting and horseracing. I think the only way to go is to put the case forward to the TD's and Senators who will be voting on this in the coming weeks. Poker is a drop in the ocean for the gambling industry but there a bunch of players in Ireland generating an income from it in some capacity or another.

Have you got any links for source? Not much I can find on Google that's reputable

Yeah, the reporting on it tends to be really poor and there is very little awareness regarding what the bill entails. You can go on https://www.oireachtas.ie/ and search for the Gambling Regulations Bill 2022 and read the bill itself and the associated debates. That web page will also give you a list of all the TD's and Senators who will be voting if you feel strongly on the issue.

I got in touch with Peter Jackson (Flutter CEO) earlier this morning and in fairness to him, he got back to me straight away and says he's on board and that they will see what they can do.

Any changes related to taxation on gambling winnings? As of now, there is no tax, afaik.

Not to my knowledge. For the players it's the same setup as the UK.

I should point out as well that there is a lot of good in this legislation in terms of protecting Irish consumers and those behind the drafting of the legislation are doing what they believe to be right. However, it should be clear to anyone familiar with online poker that these restrictions are counterproductive for everyone. Irish poker players will move overnight to play on unregulated platforms where they have next to no protections in place for vulnerable people and the government will loses significant tax revenue as well as revenue for the social fund they are introducing for problem gamblers.

Thanks.

I'm from Ireland.

There are 20 casinos here and they offer poker tournaments.

A 10 euro max buy in game for them would be a disaster. I don't see how they could stay open.

And rewards and winning more than 3000 euro is good for players, lol.

There are 750 betting shops in Ireland. Paddy Power, Boyle, Ladbrookes, everywhere, this legislation seems so random to be honest.

I'll have to see it to believe it.

There is specific exemption for sports betting and horse-racing, as these have been classed as skill games ahahahaha

They always go after the easy option, we can only shout at them but the racing community can do some real damage.

Just to clarify, they argue that the limits on casino games are due to the lack of any skill element but also due to the speed and nature of the games. Now for online slots say, that makes sense. Each game takes seconds and it is well known that this form of gambling is highly addictive for those with a predisposition toward problem gambling. The UK government, I believe is bringing in a max stake limit for slots of £5 for those over 25 and £2 for those 18-25. You could argue that this €10 limit for anyone over 18 doesn't go far enough. A punter could lose large sums very quickly betting €10 every few seconds.

Poker on the other hand is a slow strategic game and just by the nature of how cash games and tournaments work, setting limits on how much a punter can bet or win can't work. Let's say you buy in for your €10 cash game and you're running good and up €2. The next hand you get AA and someone goes all in for €12. Unfortunately, you can't call as you can only put in €10. It's so silly, but the legislators just don't know.

Do you have a legal definition of person to person poker, that will distinguish it from video poker? They probably won't insert anything that can be used as a loophole for slot style poker games.

Irish facing sites, if this all goes down as it looks exactly now, will have to just operate 10EUR cap games

I don't but there is a gambling regulator being established to enforce this bill so they can apply common sense.

Well, part of the problem is that Irish players play against people from all over the world, so I don't see how even that could work in principle. The player pool would just be too small to get these €10 cap games going.

At least you should be asking for "peer to peer poker" to be classified as skill, to distinguish it from video poker.

Yeah, fair point.

If in Ireland would you're play on GGPoker be affected?

Would regulation just apply to Irish sites PaddyPower, Ladbrookes etc

Anything that is regulated. So the main sites, GG, Stars, Party etc.

It's a sad state of affairs when the Russians and Chinese are playing on GGPoker with more liberty than the Americans and the Irish.

My public reps are about as useful as a chocolate teapot, tried contacting them 18 months ago about retro-fitting the house and none of them phoned back but I will try anyway. Even during the local elections they weren't arsed about coming to our doors in person, bunch of knobs.

This proposed gambling regulation could severely limit poker players in Ireland with its €10 max bet and €3,000 winnings cap. Contact your TDs and Senators to ensure they understand poker’s skill-based nature and consider excluding it from these restrictions.