Thought this was interesting. Has anyone played there?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...ion/ar-BBLsTY3

I played there a handful of times. Anyone who was active in the NYC poker scene probably played at or at least heard of The Townhouse.

Obviously surprised to hear about the drug ring operation. As far as I know, that was separate from the poker house. The guys running the game weren't very friendly and I always got bad vibes at that spot - even though I lived a few blocks from it, it was always my last ditch poker game to play at.

There were better - or at least friendlier (I have to admit - the action there was solid) - spots to play at in the city. Interesting and sad to see what was going on behind the scenes.

What, the drugs are a loss-leader for the real profit center.... a poker game?

Lol, lose 20k in a $500 buy in game?

I'm down $350 in the last 80 hours and I thought I was hit by the variance train.

Well, you know. Drugs are such an unprofitable business that you sometimes need a sure thing like poker to keep it running.

Snazzy photo aside, it doesn't sound like the drugs and poker were in the same location.

Sentences like "It made steady money, with players in lower-stake games on the first floor required to buy at least $200 in chips." make me think that we might not be getting top-level reporting here.

Thats the min buy... lol

Good read.

It seems they were using profit from poker to make drug buys. As crazy as that sounds it is not odd. In my experience, many mid level dealers are constantly looking for funds to make their next buy.

Many actually buy on credit and only pay the supplier when it is sold. It is also quite common for them to beg borrow or steal the necessary funds. I know criminal defense attorneys who have been approached by clients for a "short term loan" - none have done so to my knowledge.

I am guessing that there are many reasons for this. First, many dealers use their own product and are less profitable than you would think. Many others have bad bankroll management and spend money they might need for next buy.

In 20 some years I have seen all kinds of crazy schemes to earn money to make a buy. (I usually find out when I ask a client "why were you stealing x" and they tell me it was to finance a drug "operation"). However, I have yet to see poker used as a source of funds for this.

On the other hand, here's what the Post wrote:

https://nypost.com/2018/08/03/nypd-s...ing-drug-ring/

"Authorities believe the coke and heroin was intended to fuel the West Village poker club — whose “professional clientele” consisted mostly of doctors dropping as much as $20,000 per night."

I'm not sure if by "fuel" they mean financially for the club or physically for the players, or if the two operations were related beyond shared ownership.

I just assumed they were running 1/2 games downstairs and bigger games upstairs. Depending on number of tables and rake that could be quite profitable. Maybe Keaton can enlighten us?

It did seem that the reporter just repeated what police stated. Most reporters and cops seem to have little understanding of poker economy. Although back in my days playing in underground games in this area (I was a prosecutor then) I knew many police officers who played and a few who were in the games undercover.

The game was 1/3 with an average buyin of $700-$1,000. They gave a 10% "bonus" on your buyin up to $100, so that induced deeper starting stacks. So the 1/3 was pretty much equivalent to a 2/5 in a casino. I literally never saw anyone buy in for $200 or anything remotely close to that.

The game would officially become a 2/5 around 10pm or so. My memory was that there were 2 tables downstairs, the main and then the second which would run if there were enough players. I never saw any games running in the upstairs, so that wasn't a usual thing. They also had a 5/10 run on Sundays, which I never played at.

And yeah, contrary to what the NY Post says, the clientele wasn't "mostly doctors" - it was a typical mix of NYC finance types, young professionals, blue collars NYC guys, and a healthy amount of life degens. The guys who ran the house all seemed like total degens too.

The rake at these NYC games is astronomical so I can't imagine they weren't making absurd profits off the game. It's just about unthinkable that any consistent NYC game would need outside funding to stay afloat. I'm guessing this crew was just greedy or dumb (or most likely, both). If they would have kept their heads down and just run a relatively clean game, they'd be printing money - and I doubt the cops would come knocking either.

The house can make $2k+ a night in rake off a 1/2 table easily. Probably more in NYC where you don't have to compete with legal casino rake and can just rake 10% uncapped or something ridiculous. More on top of that if this game was playing more like a $5/$5 as ppl said.

"additional revenue to finance illicit drug buys"

Did they change the wording of the linked article or are you quoting something different?

Funny, I was reading this thread and on the right add space was an add from a defense attorney in my area who I have known for years which said "I don't want you to need me - Don't do drugs!"

I assume it was bc of my geographic area but thought it was funny in light of this story - too bad the people running that game didn't see it.

Interestingly, in my area underground games ran for some time and were never bothered by law enforcement. However, when talk of legal casinos started (even before it came to pass) the State Police started cracking down on games. I would go into an underground venue - see a State Trooper That I knew playing in the game and turn around and walk right out.

To be clear PA Law enforcement didn't charge those playing only the house, however, as a prosecutor I didn't want to be called as a witness during the ensuing prosecution. I also was not ever forced to prosecute those cases.

$5/hand max X 30h/hr @ max rake = 12+ hours ?

They gave 10% bonuses to people? Yikes, rake must have been astronomical. Do people really not notice when everyone's stack at the table is slowly dwindling? I can't even play low limit games at a casino anymore. When everyone buys in for $100 and $6 is raked per hand, the only one make money is the house.

You must play at Commerce.

Might need to up your rake/hand estimate a bit.

Limit games are still relatively popular in AZ. The 3/6 and 4/8 games are fun but mostly just rake traps.

Yeah, more like 10% of the first $100, and perhaps another chop for a high hand/bad beat/jackpot arrangement (100% of which may or may not be returned to players depending on how honest the hosts are).

That is of course offset by the horrifically bad play that runs rampant in these games.

Why ? You play at live tables with more than 30 hands average per hour with an average rake > $5 per hand ?

You play at a place where rake is capped at $10 ?

(I know that's possible, I played at a place in Panama where the rake was not capped at all..... rake of $100 was not unusual in Omaha.)

You were replying to a post trying to answer a question for what this particular game might be taking. I've been led to believe that NYC underground 1/2 games likely rake 10-20 per hand and might take more.

I wouldn't be surprised to see 10% uncapped rake in a game like this. $1000 pot $100 rake.