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Old 08-08-2013, 03:32 PM   #1
David Sklansky
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Two Other Holdem Variations

First I think I agree with those who didn't like the earlier variation I brought up where unused cards are exposed. (Although I don't necessarily agree that non pros are intimidated by complications. Their home games are more complicated than any casino games.)

But there should exist games that let recreational players have a decent chance while playing a lot of hands. What do you think of these two:

1. Preflop, only the blinds are allowed to raise. Pot limit draw poker is actually often played this way in some parts of Europe.

2. No one can be dealt aces or kings to start. Perhaps a few more hands as well.
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Old 08-08-2013, 03:40 PM   #2
Wilbury Twist
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Re: Two Other Holdem Variations

To clarify, in No. 1 a player's option is to limp or fold only, correct? Then if the blinds raise, that player may only call or fold (i.e. no back-raising).

In No. 2, how is this enforced? If a player gets AA or KK, they can only use one of the cards to connect with the board? Or they simply can't show down a winner with it, so a player will almost always dump it because it only has fold equity.

Edit: in before Sklansky launches his own site in Nevada with nothing but oddball variations.
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Old 08-08-2013, 04:12 PM   #3
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Re: Two Other Holdem Variations

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Originally Posted by David Sklansky View Post
But there should exist games that let recreational players have a decent chance while playing a lot of hands.
Um, most games spread in casinos share this feature. Otherwise they wouldn't be spread e.g. stud hi-only is pretty much gone.

As for your new ideas.... honestly, they are kind of bizarre. I don't really see the point of either one.
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Old 08-08-2013, 04:26 PM   #4
Morphismus
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Re: Two Other Holdem Variations

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Originally Posted by Wilbury Twist View Post
In No. 2, how is this enforced? If a player gets AA or KK, they can only use one of the cards to connect with the board? Or they simply can't show down a winner with it, so a player will almost always dump it because it only has fold equity.
If someone gets AA, KK, they (can chose to) get a part of a progressive jackpot and are out of the hand. Fish would love that.
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Old 08-08-2013, 04:28 PM   #5
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Re: Two Other Holdem Variations

I like the idea. Should be easy to implement.
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Old 08-08-2013, 04:29 PM   #6
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Re: Two Other Holdem Variations

god damnit sklansky do u not have anything better to do with your time stop getting high plz

#getgood
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Old 08-08-2013, 04:35 PM   #7
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Re: Two Other Holdem Variations

how about this idea... player gets 2 hole cards dealt face down and has to decide which card in his hand he has to show face up before any action begins. that would bring a lot of new strategy into the game. not saying i love the idea but it would definitely be something interesting to work around
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Old 08-08-2013, 04:54 PM   #8
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Re: Two Other Holdem Variations

holdem is pretty fun but the blinds are a dumb system
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Old 08-08-2013, 04:57 PM   #9
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Re: Two Other Holdem Variations

Choctaw Holdem in Oklahoma is kinda interesting. Someone can probably confirm or correct me but from my understanding

you get dealt 3cards. post flop you set one card of your choosing face up like stud.

The rest is like holdem where any of your 3cards or board 5 cards can be played. I believe they run it as No Limit but I do not see any reason why it couldn't be ran in other variants.

Kind of a Holdem/Stud merge...

EDIT: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...47&postcount=5
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Old 08-08-2013, 04:58 PM   #10
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Re: Two Other Holdem Variations

I've been talking about #2 for a long time now. I think it would be great for the best player at the table and the worst player at the table at the same time. How can that be a bad thing?

To prevent complications / angle shooting / having to fold / redealing, the best way to incorporate it would be saying: if you get dealt AA or KK, you can only play one card at showdown.
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Old 08-08-2013, 05:00 PM   #11
David Sklansky
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Re: Two Other Holdem Variations

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Originally Posted by Wilbury Twist View Post
In No. 2, how is this enforced? .
The computer redeals. Tougher to do live. I first heard this idea from Lyle Berman.

Also in the blinds only raise game I would disallow reraises for obvious reasons.
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Old 08-08-2013, 05:08 PM   #12
$ick of Being Rich
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Re: Two Other Holdem Variations

The bike breifly spread a variation years ago that they called 'LA Hold 'em'

It was a limit game that played exactly like standard hold em except for that instead of dealing a community river, each player still in the hand was dealt a third card. Never got to play it seemed like fun
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Old 08-08-2013, 05:34 PM   #13
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Re: Two Other Holdem Variations

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Originally Posted by $ick of Being Rich View Post
The bike breifly spread a variation years ago that they called 'LA Hold 'em'

It was a limit game that played exactly like standard hold em except for that instead of dealing a community river, each player still in the hand was dealt a third card. Never got to play it seemed like fun
would the 3rd card to each player be face up or face down?

this sounds pretty awesome
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Old 08-08-2013, 06:23 PM   #14
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Re: Two Other Holdem Variations

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Originally Posted by ZeeJustin View Post
I've been talking about #2 for a long time now. I think it would be great for the best player at the table and the worst player at the table at the same time. How can that be a bad thing?
It would be nice if Sklansky, ZeeJustin, or any other advocate of this approach could take a minute or two to explain WHY this change would be so wonderful.

Because I'm a fairly smart dude, and it's not immediately obvious to me what problem this is solving.
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Old 08-08-2013, 06:24 PM   #15
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Re: Two Other Holdem Variations

david theres already a 2 card variant that people want to play

it's called pot limit omaha nobody wants to play random mystery rules poker
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Old 08-08-2013, 06:34 PM   #16
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Re: Two Other Holdem Variations

My idea for a holdem variant would be regular NLHE, but players have to pay the pot 1bb whenever they fold. That would induce a lot of action while simultaneously increasing the rage level of old people. Its a win win.
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Old 08-08-2013, 06:35 PM   #17
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Re: Two Other Holdem Variations

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Originally Posted by BustoPro View Post
It would be nice if Sklansky, ZeeJustin, or any other advocate of this approach could take a minute or two to explain WHY this change would be so wonderful.

Because I'm a fairly smart dude, and it's not immediately obvious to me what problem this is solving.
The bum hunting nits get punished. The expert player that wants to play every hand gets rewarded, and the loose amateur that doesn't know he's "supposed to play tight" gets rewarded.

AA is just too strong a hand. The chance that it's in someone's 3/4 bet range means you have to play so much tighter vs that range. If AA and KK don't exist, you'll have a ton of situations where 70/30 is the worst case scenario instead of 80/20. Because of that, you get to play more hands.

This is part of the reason why you can play looser in PLO. The hands run a lot closer in equity.
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Old 08-08-2013, 06:36 PM   #18
Mecastyles
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Re: Two Other Holdem Variations

holdem hilo plz
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Old 08-08-2013, 06:41 PM   #19
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Re: Two Other Holdem Variations

Quote:
Originally Posted by BustoPro View Post
It would be nice if Sklansky, ZeeJustin, or any other advocate of this approach could take a minute or two to explain WHY this change would be so wonderful.

Because I'm a fairly smart dude, and it's not immediately obvious to me what problem this is solving.
I imagine because without AA/KK it becomes harder to get it in preflop as a substantial favorite if the best hands are now QQ and AK. Helps the worst player b/c they are crushed less. Helps the best player because other players will be forced into playing weaker holdings (since they can't just wait for AA/KK) and theoretically the better player will make better decisions when the average holdings are murkier/weaker.
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Old 08-08-2013, 07:00 PM   #20
winwin
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Re: Two Other Holdem Variations

What about lowball hold em?

Also you could alter the way the community cards are dealt or even how many are dealt. So you could have things go 2-2-1 or even something like 3-2-1 to encourage more action.
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Old 08-08-2013, 07:23 PM   #21
ZeeJustin
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Re: Two Other Holdem Variations

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Originally Posted by shanedeepthroats View Post
one problem i see is that there are a lot more AK combos than kk/aa so if AK becomes the nuts preflop all ins may actually increase
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 44.237% 43.20% 01.03% 355083348 8504916.00 { QQ-TT, AQs, AQo }
Hand 1: 55.763% 54.73% 01.03% 449812740 8504916.00 { AKs, AKo }

Ya, some people will play their 56%ers like they're AA and mash them preflop, but playing postflop with AK when no one can have AA or KK is pretty sweet too.
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Old 08-08-2013, 07:29 PM   #22
samooth
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Re: Two Other Holdem Variations

hate #1 and love #2, though i think fish would hate it because they won´t understand/accept how it benefits them
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Old 08-08-2013, 07:43 PM   #23
dzikijohnny
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Re: Two Other Holdem Variations

What about adding another suit to the deck? I have a deck of cards with 8 suits.
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Old 08-08-2013, 07:46 PM   #24
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Re: Two Other Holdem Variations

Still think Pot Limit preflop and NL post is best variation.
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Old 08-08-2013, 08:11 PM   #25
rockin
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Re: Two Other Holdem Variations

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Originally Posted by dzikijohnny View Post
What about adding another suit to the deck? I have a deck of cards with 8 suits.
Definitely agree.

a) 5 suit deck

b) or add another card (i.e. 4 jokers or 4 ones or 4 princes) to make a deck 56 cards.
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