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It took a Sugarhouse dealer 16 hands to figure out the cards weren't shuffled. 0K fine It took a Sugarhouse dealer 16 hands to figure out the cards weren't shuffled. 0K fine

10-07-2018 , 05:44 PM
Shuffler was in sort mode instead of shuffle mode.

https://www.cardplayer.com/poker-new...ker-tournament

Quote:
Philadelphia’s SugarHouse casino on Wednesday was hit with nearly $100,000 worth of fines from state gaming regulators, which included a penalty from an incident that affected the integrity of a September 2017 poker tournament.

A state investigation found that during a poker tournament on Sep. 23, 2017, a poker dealer dealt 16 hands with two unshuffled decks. None of the poker players at the table spoke up.
It took a Sugarhouse dealer 16 hands to figure out the cards weren't shuffled. 0K fine Quote
10-07-2018 , 06:17 PM
How would the players know?

Now, if the deck was never CUT they might have a more obvious clue...
It took a Sugarhouse dealer 16 hands to figure out the cards weren't shuffled. 0K fine Quote
10-07-2018 , 06:21 PM
Say the first deal was cut right at - to pick an example - the deuce of a given suit.

And say it was 9-handed.

The first player in the first hand would get a 2 of that suit, and then a Jack of that same suit.

And all the other players would get similarly "scattered" cards, some flush draws and some not.

How would the players know something was up?
It took a Sugarhouse dealer 16 hands to figure out the cards weren't shuffled. 0K fine Quote
10-07-2018 , 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozsr
Say the first deal was cut right at - to pick an example - the deuce of a given suit.

And say it was 9-handed.

The first player in the first hand would get a 2 of that suit, and then a Jack of that same suit.

And all the other players would get similarly "scattered" cards, some flush draws and some not.

How would the players know something was up?
They really wouldn't know until they see that every board is very connected.
It took a Sugarhouse dealer 16 hands to figure out the cards weren't shuffled. 0K fine Quote
10-07-2018 , 07:20 PM
Not every hand gets a flop. Also the KsAs2d flop wouldn't look as noticeable as the 5h 6h 7h flop
It took a Sugarhouse dealer 16 hands to figure out the cards weren't shuffled. 0K fine Quote
10-07-2018 , 09:52 PM
If an unshuffled deck is random is it really an unshuffed deck?
It took a Sugarhouse dealer 16 hands to figure out the cards weren't shuffled. 0K fine Quote
10-07-2018 , 09:59 PM
They don't hire Fields medal winners to deal cards I'm afraid.
It took a Sugarhouse dealer 16 hands to figure out the cards weren't shuffled. 0K fine Quote
10-08-2018 , 01:59 AM
Assuming it's a full table, there might actually almost never be a flop in this scenario because everyone will always be dealt garbage except one or two players will get like A5s or ATo.

If the two A hands go against each other, they will never flop an A or any other flop that interests both of them.

At a 9-player game, the other possible hands are J2s, Q3s, K4s, 62o, 73o, 84o, 95o, T6o, J7o, Q8o, and K9o.

Last edited by NickMPK; 10-08-2018 at 02:06 AM.
It took a Sugarhouse dealer 16 hands to figure out the cards weren't shuffled. 0K fine Quote
10-08-2018 , 03:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastBalla
They don't hire Fields medal winners to deal cards I'm afraid.
How should the dealer instantly identify this situation? 16 hands can go by without him seeing a single card face up.

Yeah in the article it says about shuff mach blinking but if we are talking about card sequencing. The light is visible to players also.
It took a Sugarhouse dealer 16 hands to figure out the cards weren't shuffled. 0K fine Quote
10-08-2018 , 04:12 AM
I was going to say $100k in fines is hardly justified but then I saw

Quote:
SugarHouse, home to 28 tables, generated $660,000 in rake from its poker games in August
.....
It took a Sugarhouse dealer 16 hands to figure out the cards weren't shuffled. 0K fine Quote
10-08-2018 , 08:40 AM
"none of the players spoke up"

lol
It took a Sugarhouse dealer 16 hands to figure out the cards weren't shuffled. 0K fine Quote
10-08-2018 , 08:53 AM
Wouldn't the dealer shuffle after the first hand? How did they get to 16 hands this way? I've never played in a game where the dealer took the cards fresh from the shuffler for each hand.
It took a Sugarhouse dealer 16 hands to figure out the cards weren't shuffled. 0K fine Quote
10-08-2018 , 09:14 AM
^^

don't understand. With shuffler, taking a newly shuffled deck from the machine is exactly what all dealers do.
It took a Sugarhouse dealer 16 hands to figure out the cards weren't shuffled. 0K fine Quote
10-08-2018 , 05:36 PM
I think the craziest thing is that the shuffler can identify cards and put them in a specific order.

To come up with and implement that technology only to save a dealer a minute or two and the end of a day reordering the deck back to original form seems odd and highly vulnerable.
It took a Sugarhouse dealer 16 hands to figure out the cards weren't shuffled. 0K fine Quote
10-08-2018 , 05:47 PM
When the shuffler was new, I asked an executive with ShuffleMaster (I think the president), if the shuffler can set up a random shuffle and have every shuffler in the room deal out the same exact shuffle, for a duplicate bridge or poker tournament. He said yes, that can be done.
It took a Sugarhouse dealer 16 hands to figure out the cards weren't shuffled. 0K fine Quote
10-08-2018 , 07:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMMed13
Not every hand gets a flop. Also the KsAs2d flop wouldn't look as noticeable as the 5h 6h 7h flop
Neither of those flops are possible. On the other hand, 5h 7h 9h and Js Ks 2d would have been pretty typical.
It took a Sugarhouse dealer 16 hands to figure out the cards weren't shuffled. 0K fine Quote
10-08-2018 , 07:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrChesspain
Neither of those flops are possible. On the other hand, 5h 7h 9h and Js Ks 2d would have been pretty typical.
This post makes no sense to me, maybe I'm missing something. In poker, a flop is brought from the deck by grabbing three cards in succession from the deck and then putting them face up on the felt. Why the ****ing **** would it skip every other card?

I mean, again, I could be wrong here but I'm pretty sure you're being stupid
It took a Sugarhouse dealer 16 hands to figure out the cards weren't shuffled. 0K fine Quote
10-08-2018 , 07:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loctus
This post makes no sense to me, maybe I'm missing something. In poker, a flop is brought from the deck by grabbing three cards in succession from the deck and then putting them face up on the felt. Why the ****ing **** would it skip every other card?

I mean, again, I could be wrong here but I'm pretty sure you're being stupid

The article also refers to a sort function operating instead of a shuffle function ...

That said, would the flop from a like sorted deck be that some sort of sequence EVERY time ? .... If the deck was re-sorted every time, wouldn't the flop actually be the same EVERY time there was a flop, if the same # of players were dealt in ?

or if the shuffler handled two decks, every other time ?

Took 16 hands of seeing the exact same flop to catch on ?

There has GOT to be video of the table and the flop somewhere at Pa Gaming or the Sugarhouse ?

Last edited by Gzesh; 10-08-2018 at 07:42 PM.
It took a Sugarhouse dealer 16 hands to figure out the cards weren't shuffled. 0K fine Quote
10-08-2018 , 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gzesh
The article also refers to a sort function operating instead of a shuffle function ...

That said, would the flop from a like sorted deck be that some sort of sequence EVERY time ? .... If the deck was re-sorted every time, wouldn't the flop actually be the same EVERY time there was a flop, if the same # of players were dealt in ?

or if the shuffler handled two decks, every other time ?

Took 16 hands of seeing the exact same flop to catch on ?

There has GOT to be video of the table and the flop somewhere at Pa Gaming or the Sugarhouse ?
Dealer manually cuts the deck in different places every hand before dealing

Edit: Without doing the mental exercise of figuring it out, and without actually grabbing a sorted deck and experimenting, I'm guessing that a sorted deck:
-Gives pretty ****ty starting hands on average to people (worse than normal randomness would), which then should result in fewer than normal flops being seen.
-Starting hands/hole cards would be disconnected and different every time
-Flops would be *three in a row of same suit*, but there might just have been two-three flops in those 16 hands

Last edited by Loctus; 10-08-2018 at 07:58 PM. Reason: .
It took a Sugarhouse dealer 16 hands to figure out the cards weren't shuffled. 0K fine Quote
10-08-2018 , 08:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loctus
This post makes no sense to me, maybe I'm missing something. In poker, a flop is brought from the deck by grabbing three cards in succession from the deck and then putting them face up on the felt. Why the ****ing **** would it skip every other card?

I mean, again, I could be wrong here but I'm pretty sure you're being stupid
It's entirely possible.
It took a Sugarhouse dealer 16 hands to figure out the cards weren't shuffled. 0K fine Quote
10-08-2018 , 08:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3fiveofdiamonds
I think the craziest thing is that the shuffler can identify cards and put them in a specific order.

To come up with and implement that technology only to save a dealer a minute or two and the end of a day reordering the deck back to original form seems odd and highly vulnerable.

Yep. I had already known this to be the case with the shuffle technology and it's so sketchy.
It took a Sugarhouse dealer 16 hands to figure out the cards weren't shuffled. 0K fine Quote
10-09-2018 , 10:38 AM
There was also a flashing light on the shuffler indicating that it was in sort mode.
It took a Sugarhouse dealer 16 hands to figure out the cards weren't shuffled. 0K fine Quote
10-09-2018 , 11:04 AM
I knew there was a reason I can't win at poker, the shuffler machine has it in for me. Swipe player card so it knows which seat I'm in then deals around me EVERYTIME!

FFS Skynet is real
It took a Sugarhouse dealer 16 hands to figure out the cards weren't shuffled. 0K fine Quote
10-09-2018 , 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcorb
I knew there was a reason I can't win at poker, the shuffler machine has it in for me. Swipe player card so it knows which seat I'm in then deals around me EVERYTIME!

FFS Skynet is real
Yet you continue to use the internets and post online. You do realize that every time you do, it turns on your webcam and starts recording ?
It took a Sugarhouse dealer 16 hands to figure out the cards weren't shuffled. 0K fine Quote
10-09-2018 , 12:53 PM
I've always suspected live poker is rigged ,from now on I'm going to stick to online where mishaps like this can never happen.
It took a Sugarhouse dealer 16 hands to figure out the cards weren't shuffled. 0K fine Quote

      
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