solid

5% roi? you can go on like 10k buyin downswings

I don't think so. I was talking about small field MTTs like this. EV is 5k buyins if you play 100k tourneys (black line). 10k buyin downswing would be like DOUBLE the distance from the top green line to the bottom red line.

Edit: sorry I gave a totally wrong explanation then edited it. I think it's pretty clear though 10k buyins is not a realistic swing.

https://www.primedope.com/tournament...ce-calculator/

That field size is pretty small though. With bigger fields you are right I suppose.

So you basically would treat it exactly as if Peter owed 1.6 mil to Tom?
Horses don't owe their backers the make up when they lose.


Sick brag. Poinless and irrelevant, but sick.


- Why would you need your 250k first?
- I'm now pretty sure you get my point since you carefully ignored the 3 or 4 questions I asked that where before the ones you answered . If I'm wrong answer those other questions and I'll clarify what my point is


Technically, morally and moreover logically


Nice try.
I'm not the first one you tried to explain to you:
- How staking deals work
- Variance
- What a freeroll is
I've seen at least 3 others trying to explain those to you, and you insulting 1 of them.
All those things are not a matter of feelings or opinions, but facts.

Cause I'd refuse to get freerolled?

1) Jetten said publicly that Tom owed him ~250k. Haralabob jumped in and said Dwan owed him 350k.
2) Tom did the most confusing interviews ever saying:
- it's not clear what he owes Haralabob.
- That Jetten is in 1.6 million make up. So he should not pay him
- Ike fronted the buy ins for Peter. (Not that he had the other half of Jetten's deal)
- He paid 30k to Peter (Peter confirmed).
- That the money Peter asked was from a staking deal cash out.
3) Peter said the debt was from pieces Tom bought and didn't give him the money. He also said he has received an other 100k from Tom since
4) Doug goes on a stream and says Tom owe 30 mllion to some scary guys.

surely tom beats poker in macau right? i mean he is better than the business man there... did he lose that much money playing poker or did he degen out in other casino games?

Pretty sure his debts are poker related and otherwise, the most reasonable scenario is that he lost too much in one spot or spent too much recklessly and whoever was backing him (the dangerous guys) pulled the plug and said **** it we’re not giving you anymore money

Games could also be harder to find, might not even be allowed to play in them

I didn't even try to slog through Dwan's mumbo jumbo since I learned from the J4 fiasco that the dude basically thinks on a different wavelength from regular humans

But piecing together all the disparate pieces, what I think can be concluded is that Dwan doesn't dispute Jetten's claim about he owes, but rather he got pissy that the dude won't give him a discount after Dwan gave him a discount on the 1.6 mil makeup. So Dwan through his mumbo jumbo meandering is saying he doesn't owe Jetten because the discount he gave Jetten for the 1.6 mil was more than what he owes him for the $200k+.

I don’t believe dwan was even arguing that… Dwan said he just wanted the receipts and would pay.


I think only people here were saying that it’s kinda messed up when you take a step back and consider the makeup figure.

But again the make up has nothing to do w these buy ins. The make up is a separate deal that jetten doesn’t owe. He either has to play more , unlikely, or dwan and the partner have to decide to cut him free way more likely. A 3rd option would be jetten buying out of make up. But that doesn’t make sense since Jetten doesn’t intend to do more deals w dwan or other people in poker. But ya when you have a backer you don’t owe them the money. You owe a red figure known as makeup. I know people in poker for 20 years who still don’t understand the concept. The horse doesn’t owe the money unless he wins it back to cover the red figure.

The entire concept of staking is the staker is putting up the money, sure you could buy out of makeup to get even and get a better payout in the future but besides that the staker is responsible for the money at all times.

Dwan wanting receipts was just his pissy way to weasel out of what he owed. As Dwan mentioned, he and Jetten were friends so their word was good enough. Dwan suddenly "forgetting" a simple thing like how he much gave Jetten for the buyin is BS. Dwan has done the SAME thing to Haralbob. Delaying and making up excuses to not pay what he owes.

"But ya when you have a backer you don’t owe them the money. You owe a red figure known as makeup" WTFF???!! You owe the person you made the deal with. Makeup isn't some magical bucket of debt that you can just throw your losses into. Stakee has an obligation to pay back what he owes to the staker. Even if you "retired" like that lawyer girl Catlin did, if you ever go back to poker, you still owe the staker, the makeup.

I agree w most of what you said… except make up is def a magical bucket of debt. That’s the glorious nature of playing on someone else’s dime. You only owe that money if they are dumb enough to keep putting you in!

But ya if jetten goes back to poker I agree he owes dwan then. But that’s what’s so magical. He doesn’t have to play another hand of poker and thus wouldn’t owe anything.

Makeup is actually some magical bucket of debt in the sense that the debt only exists when the person you owe the makeup to is fully staking you in events. There is no other obligation on the horse to repay unless the backer is fully backing like agreed upon. So if Dwan is gg , then Peter doesnt have to pay him 1.6m out of pocket. Now if Dwan is not GG, then Peter cant be playing under any other deal or his own action without fulfilling his obligation playing under Dwan stake.

It's like Tom had some really good weed, and he smoked Peter down many times. Then when Tom was dry he wanted to smoke some of Peter's weed, who refused.

Thanks Tom! Now I finally understand the mumbo jumbo! Magical bucket of debt! gg! of course! Jetten ACTUALLY owes you 3.2m just cuz you are you!

Exactly.

Looks like unsurprisingly Dwan lost the arbitration according to Jetten's twitter.

He said Dwan has an insolvency any details on that?

He means Dwan is broke. He isn't referring to an actual legal process.

He might be but with Crypto at 70k I highly doubt Dwan is broke. Maybe he's not liquid but he's not broke.

hmmm funny that acr has been delaying payouts since they employed dwan, and now he can pay his debts off?

Dwan definitely has that gambler mentality where if he was late on Bitcoin and thought the biggest part of the boom was over (now I can only hope for 10x returns at best so boring...) he would have dumped his money into some other shitcoin instead hoping to 1000x. I wouldnt be surprised if he lost more money on something like Terra Luna than he earned on Bitcoin.

I would be very surprised if someone with the degen brain wiring of Dwan is really capable of riding a full trend like Bitcoin's while sitting still and not messing up.

yeah Dwan infinitely more likely to swing trade with 70x leverage than to buy and hold