If this is true then explain why Dwan was avoiding and making excuses already before BF? There was 8 months between start of the bet and BF...it's a terrible excuse.

Yeah, Tom is definitely the victim here.....

My god this thread is AIDS.

yeh, tom dwan is a scammer in my book. wonder if anyone would vote no if the roles were reversed

Pretty sure that rumour is true.

Why?

Cause otherwise durrrr wouldn't have agreed to the challenge with Jungle to begin with! Why on earth would you agree to such a silly prop bet if you would have to pay the $1.5m from your own poket.
It was well known that Jungle was/is one of the best HU players of the world. Clearly durrrr knew that he had at best a very small edge over Jungle. And durrrr is not stupid.

So I think the "big issue" might be that Stars/FT refused to pay the $1.5m in case. So the rules changed during the challenge -> durrrr is not a scammer.
Maybe they could finish the challenge w/o the $1.5m penalty.

why do some people think ftp has anything to do with this challenge ??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TccGpnyf0_4

when he offered the challenge he was no ftp pro nor had anything to do with them.

Making blablaba announcements in a video is one thing (I could do that too), to agree and actually start the challenge another.
When the Jungle challenge began durrrr was a FTP pro and the whole thing was well advertised by FTP

I thought it was common knowledge that when the bet was made Dwan had his fingers crossed behind his back. He also had his eyes crossed.

Therefore the bet is null and void.

People said that Cates was just cross. This may have countered Durrrrs' cunning plan though and the bet may still be valid.

It's a dodgy area.

bottom line, online poker is dead, DEAD!

who caresssss

So the CON-arguments go something like this: "Tom Dwan is not a scammer, because:

1. he has an issue with FTP."
2. when he started the challenge he did not mean to scam."
3. Jungleman is unreasonable and/or shady himself."
4. he is just broke."
5. he is just a renegger."

This kid must have a great reputation among some of us, to defend him with five points made up out of thin air. He must have a really, really, really good reputation to assume Jungleman is scamming him, and that's why he does not finish the challenge.

This.

He is not a scammer , Just lose too much at Macau Recently . lol

oh wait ... is it mean he Broke ?

Uh, he sure paid a lot for a free-roll...

Behind the scenes, Dwan's challenge with PA was juiced by FTP. They were able to get extra money for it thus making the equity of the bet lower. How significant it was, I don't know. Dwan didn't say. He had the same setup possibly happening with Jungleman if Jungleman didn't prematurely announce the bet and all of that. He did and the FTP sponsorship either died or was cut. This cost Dwan and Jungle money. A cynical person would say that Jungle purposefully did this because it gained him an extra edge on Dwan. That's part of Dwan's beef with Jungleman. I don't think it justifies dodging pre-BF or now. Dwan also says Jungleman has done some **** which leads him to be inclined to stall until it's most convenient for him to play. Without saying what that is, it's hard to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Rumors of Durrrr being busto are probably false. It seems like it just started in NVG and has been run with. Durrrr had money saved, made a lot of money from different sites before tracking was a thing, and made a lot of money in live poker. Nobody knows what happened in Macau but the reports from people who had knowledge said Durrr and Ivey did well. There's no reason to believe that changed.

What was Ivey's involvement? Wasn't he either an escrow or voucher?

This is def the "big issue" TD had with FT. They obv gonna pay if he lost but now are not gonna.

He's been quoted on an interview as saying he has a grievance with them - what else could it be? Its out of order whats he's done and there will be a few people with bets that are in limbo now regarding them. Just ask Viffer (maybe not tbh)

Did Jungle escrow his 500k? Has he got that back?

shoulda shot jerry jones when u had the chance

I voted that he's not scamming, and I did not do so because I don't think he's doing anything wrong but because reneging is not scamming. To perpetrate a scheme which is a scam is to do so with an original intent of doing something wrong in order to get something due to a false promise, premise or paradigm; I do not believe Tom had that intent. Instead, Tom has chosen to leave unfinished a bet that should by all rights be finished and is purposefully avoiding returning to it in any way. This is wrong, but it is not scamming (and i don't mean to say it's not as bad as scamming; it might be the same or worse, it's just a different word that implies different circumstances).

How much of the bet has he paid?

Wait, some of you guys are saying you're only a scammer if you didn't intend to steal the money in the first place ? Ok so you send me 10 000$ in exchange for 6000 GBP which I will give to you when you come to London. The thing is, I went to play 50/100 and lost that 10000$ you sent me instead of converting it to GBP's and giving it to you. I didn't intend to scam you, I just lost your money. So now I'm avoiding you cause I can't pay you. But hey, I'm not a scammer, cuz it wasn't my intention.

sure he is

Si

I doubt he intended on losing 5.3 million to Blom, that's for sure. I'd bet good money Dwan has taken down a mark or two though.

I usually think your posts are right on but I think you're off base this time. eg it's a stretch to call Dwan a kid... ha

Anybody who's been around this forum for a while knows that Dwan was regarded as one of the most stand-up guys on 2p2. He built up that cred over years. For anyone whose memory isn't wiped by daily NVG bleating, Dwan stood out as one of the only FTP people who seemed to give a crap when Black Friday went down.

So that's why people are defending him - it ain't rocket science. He was a big part of this place for a long time.

re: Jungleman being shady as the reason for not playing - you can't assume that. I think you could probably assume that Dwan doesn't particularly feel like suiting Jungleman, given the bad blood between them. Is that acceptable? I dunno. Depends what went down between them. Sounds like they need to agree to an arbitrator.