what??? Ike is stepping down due to his opinion/advice he give to Jungleman regarding the LHE bot bet, they are related.

Ike, did you know durr hadn't escrowed the money at the time the challenge started? Were you aware if jungle knew?
And when you stepped down as arbitrator, was this in mutual agreement with jungle or did you simply agree to step down because you had no power anyway, and did you inform jungle of this?

Also, and feel free to ignore this part, what are your own opinions on why durrr is refusing to both play or pay?

Ike, if the money was still in escrow and your were still an arbitrator do you think that Tom's behavior until this point is bad enough that you would suggest awarding the $1.5MM to JM? If not would you have awarded any smaller penalty amounts from the escrow?

Hmm? It was my understanding that Dwan never escrowed his side of the bet.

Yes, I believe only JM escrowed it with Ivey who then proceeded to win and lose it a few dozen times at the craps tables before returning it to JM after this challenge died. Tom was with FT and since it was run by better people than PStars (or so Tom said back then if I remember) there was no reason for such a baller to escrow anything.

Note to future challenge bettors: Get it in writing and put it in escrow with a law firm that maintains a Trust account. If not, view your loss as the price of an education and move along.

QFT, we will learn from it. Don't get durrrr, get escrow!

This 'durrrr Challenge' is DEAD! Durrrr have ftp backing in the golden age & winning on ftp too (except the HU games) BUT he still use any excuse in the book to stall the challenge. No more ftp gravy trains, no more easy money online surely will kill it even if he is a man with integrity.

I thought he had escrowed it but then somehow got it back. Either way the question about hypothetically having the escrow money still stands.

dwan didn't escrow. ivey vouched for him. jungle escrowed and then got it back.

correction: Ivey never vouched. He told me personally and didn't now what I was talking about when I mentioned the vouch.

I'll post a more detailed response of all my issues with Tom if continues to be unresponsive. I learned that there is actually some good(?) reason to give him some time and for his silence, so I'll wait some more. A large part of the issue for not revealing all information is because many people involved are friends of mine, and it's out of respect to them.

Somehow Tom constantly has a never-ending life jam and conveniently can't continue...

Why not give him "two weeks" of coaching so that he can crush online again and pay you back. DN says that is all he would need and Tom is probably as quick a study.

....D'une certaine façon Tom a constamment une vie confiture sans fin et pratique ne peut pas continuer ...
jungleman est en ligne

DWAN IS BROKE ..GIVE HIM A BREAK!!!

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Ike's advice to Jungle to keep the money he owes Tom as part of the escrow makes sense, and I think it's fine but I also think it's understandable for Tom to be upset by this.

If Tom acknowledges that he needs to pay the penalties and eventually the full $1.5m but doesn't have anywhere near the liquid assets to pay him at this time, it makes sense for him to want to keep the money that Jungle owed him for now, even though eventually he'll need to pay it back to Jungle and then some. I probably would be upset too if I was Tom and I found out that Ike told Jungle to keep the money.

Why if Dwan agrees he owes money in fines should JM ever pay him anything until the fines are up to date. Your argument that Dwan is cash poor so the guy he owes 1.5 million plus fines should pay him money he lost in a separate bet is absurd.

I see! after Irarelypost point it out. I was monitoring bellator lines & betting & watching mma fights while I read ike post.

but the LHE bot bet surely complicated things further.

I have no idea why Dwan agree to an increase penalty. It like he is paying 25% interest for the 1st year for 1.5M side bet, than pays 50% of interest for next year....lol. Soon the penalty in 1yr cost more than side bet after 3rd years.

Basically Dwan and Jungle should take it to the ring..

Was probably just a bogus good faith move to buy time and avoid being called a scammer. You say it's like he's paying 25% interest but it's much more likely he will never pay anything. Best case scenario, he would've had an upswing and been able to play or buy out, worst case scenario, he falls deeper into debt and has virtually no chance of being able to play/buy out. IMO it was dumb of JM to make the LHE bet with Dwan since if Dwan won, he would've asked for the $ and if he lost, it's doubtful he would've paid. Now Dwan can say "I won a bet with JM and he didn't pay."

If Dwan was capable of playing his own money there's no way he would've completely abandoned playing online. You don't play over a million high stakes hands online then just stop completely unless you're broke.

u r foolish to believe tom doesnt play online anymore

just rally ur goons jungle. worked last time right?

Where is this heard from?

So (correct my faulty reading comp. if I'm wrong) but Jungleman is saying Tom claimed ivey was vouching for him but when you talked to Ivey about it he had no idea about vouching for the bet or anything?

I'd like to know Dwans situation before voicing an opinion on this matter. Anyone have details what has been going on with him? Supposedly Jungle knows.. its a shame this is going on, Dwans my fav player, don't like seeing hes reputation tarnished.

First, I have some degen tendencies, like most people here I assume. Also, even the most disciplined of high stakes pros has a bit of the sickness.

The best high stakes gamblers don't get rich by passing what they believe to be +EV opportunities. Maybe Jungle miscalculated on the limit hold'em prop or maybe he had the best of it and durrrr ran super hot. Who knows?

All that being said, I absolutely cannot believe the limit hold'em bet was made. I was totally shocked when I read about it. Maybe I'm unaware of the time frame, and the limit hold'em bet was made when Jungle still had no doubts on getting paid/completing original challenge??? Apparently, money wasn't escrowed for limit prop, right?? Sorry if I missed that.