https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbJ--cr-E4c

Just streamed by joe, he's mentioned he may delete this video so try to watch while its still up. Weird to hear this coming from him as he's always appeared as one of the most positive/optimistic people in the poker world. What he talked about mainly in the first 15 minutes really reinforced some of the negative thoughts I too have been getting about poker as whole (but more specifically online). Tons of bots in growing numbers, colluding becoming more norm and accepted by people in the poker world, increased rake and ****ty rb deals if any at all, the big emphasis there is now on site selection/site hopping, multi account etc. These problems just seem to be getting worse and worse and its really discouraging when you goal is to consistently grind and have something to look forward too.

What are you thoughts about poker in the next 5 years? Which formats do you think the profits are going to shift too? Is the dream dead?

if everyone reading this post and watching the video called their reps/senators and told them they wanted to play poker, and told people they know to do the same thing, the game would get somewhere

that's where we're at. everything else pales in comparison. you want better games? this is what you do. everything else is peanuts

yea but in what world will that happen in? Poker players in particular just don't have it in their nature to work together as a collective like that. I want peoples thought on this and not fantasize about what can be done, I know you can use that against me and say I'm the problem as well but I'm like 99.99% sure what you said will never happen. Also that idea is mainly oriented around US gambling laws and whatnot, yes the states coming back to the market will help but it will only postpone the inevitable death of online poker. I mainly want peoples thoughts on whether or not they think it will be possible to grind out an okay income online still within the next 5 years or if it will be completely dried up within a couple years and a good ev will be like 10-15k a year

like as of now I know that a good pro makes maybe 100k a year for sake of argument, 5 years ago it wouldve been like 200k+, we're all hoping that this deterioration of everyones ev will slow down or if we're lucky enough come to a standstill, but if it progresses at the rate its going at the guys making 100k/year now will be making less than 50 within a few years for the same grueling work

Im not delusional I know its very unlikely that poker will get any better, but I hope that the rate the games have been getting tougher at seriously slow down cause otherwise poker will be dead very soon imo, cant really speak on live though

the kid is having some sort of mental break down over poker & life

I've been around the web since the late 90s.

A lot of things have exploded in popularity over the years and it seemed like endless stream of easy money... until it stopped being easy money.

It's just a natural lifecycle of a lot of things, and this is especially true in a game that is worse than zero sum (because of rake.)

i think that's the problem. in the golden years you could print money, now it's a real job with a very uncertain future. there's less money to be made and way more people (governments, regulatory bodies, micro pros) taking a share of it.

more like someone realizing that there will be no poker boom 2.0 and seeing that the internet is just a f*cked up place. negative ppl raise their voices much more often than the average person, so this whole BS gets amplified.

Ha, I am digging this ****. This is real. Many points for this dude right now.

edit: only 2 minutes in

Looks like the ACR bots sent Joey nuts.

I don't think thats it, any real player would know theres no chance of there being another boom anywhere near the first one, maybe a boom that would deter the path pokers headed by 1 year at best

can someone explain this whole thing with ACR? I keep hearing about it... whats going on with the bots over there?

Now that he's playing baseball for the Atlanta Braves he feels the need to **** on poker. Amazing.

he even said things about keeping the dream alive, directly referring to the pre-BF days and the possibility of climbing up the limits. totally ignoring the facts like world wide deposits and regulatory changes.

if joey really would understand the business, he would neither be surprised about all those changes in the last years (and he always was surprised), nor would he say BS like "what poker turned into" ... poker was always about taking someone's money. all those memories about the good old days are just a glorification of the same game.

take seating scripts as an example. 'back then' you didn't need software, but of course you dodged the better players. and if you found an uber fish, you followed him until he quit.

i don't want to justify anything, but Joey can't talk about changes, like there was much of a choice. the market is in decline and people are getting more desperate. while the solutions might have gotten more drastic, the mechanics remain the same.


can't recall the detail, but i think the bottom line is, that there was massive cheating (bots), and ACR never really cared even players complained via mail. Joey made several videos so it got really much attention and after that ACR finally did something.

so yeah, he's a good guy but i think he just doesn't understand, that poker always was a predatory business

Seriously.......this just in.......there is absolutely ZERO CHANCE of poker being 100% fair on the internet. How in the world can an intelligent person expect a game like poker to be 100% innocent and fair on the internet? Collusion, bots, hole card integrity.......there are tons of stories about cheating, scamming, backing, and a bunch of other issues. It's like WarGames......the wisest course of action is not to play. If you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Personally, I'll never play online poker....because there is absolutely no chance of it being fair. That, as far as I can tell, is the only solution.......not to play.

So far, the best thing about Joey’s video is that negativity and toxicity is just unnecessary. Life is too short, and you only get one shot at it.

Joey should go make a go at music and see the vileness and toxicity in the music community.

I think it's worse there since there's so little money to go around compared to the amount of people involved. Like, a four band bill with each band having five people, that's twenty folks, and the grand total of payout to all twenty people is........ three hundred dollars! With a hundo of course to the "headliner."

Just like in poker, there are good people out there in music but it is so hard to sift through the chaff that it's not worth it really.

It seems like it took a bit longer for the toxicity to hit pokerness as hard but, BUT, BUTT, you can still go out, by yourself, go sit at a table somewhere and hold your own and make money.

The sites have no plan at all for how to deal with bots, and that will still be the case if we get regulated worldwide poker or some crypto solution breaks through.

Unless you can find a way to deal with bots and players + AI-assistance, online poker is done. Greedy corporations can be dealt with by creating new sites (for those brave enough to take on such a grim challenge), but if you can't combat bots, none of it matters in the long run.

How long it will take? No idea. It will gradually get worse and worse.

Unfortunately the poker world isn't generally a nice world....... because:

It's an individual "sport", not a team sport.

Prize money is player funded, not funded by sponsors, spectator tickets or tv rights.

Most of the industry is still run like the old Wild West, devoid of proper universal rules and their enforcement, and doesn't have a governing body to encourage and maintain higher standards of player ethics and poker company operating standards.

Any activity where money is God will often bring out the worst in people, who are otherwise good people, and will attract those who are already bad people.

Weird he says Doug takes too much **** from people when Doug's entire thing is to take shots at people via youtube videos.

Agreed 100%

Yeah the only legit places are Casinos....

You dont have a clue im afraid.

Its shocking alderson ? makes the legislation and not the USA

How can your country support this situation for so long i cant understand
i guess we all get what we deserve , people dont care alderson gets trillionaire

That music Industry analogy is really great
We are really blessed with an entertainment industry area where many people can actively compete semi or fully professionally without being the few chosen ones at the top.

Like eSports, sports, music, chess or other creative areas.

Haha oh no

I'm nervous to read through the comments here. I've lost my mind. This ACR thing done drove me crazy.

no ur not. this is the attention u crave. deal with it binch.

Uploaded the podcast w/ Joe Hachem to YouTube and iTunes today. I think we had a pretty great discussion about the current state of poker and more.




Will be podcasting tomorrow at 3pm EST w/ Matt Berkey

Thought about adding both clips in but decided not to. I've listened to the video approx 500 times in editing so I can't agree the replay value is 0.

One of those I think we can get. Maybe 2.

Can you tell me more about them?

I don't think I will be able to get Mark on the podcast, unfortunately. Thank you for the 5 views


We will get a Jungleman update podcast sooner than later I think. I always enjoy talking w/ the Jungle.