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Old Yesterday, 07:02 PM   #901
WiCane
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Originally Posted by DMoogle View Post
So yeah, I'm in favor of opening back up without masks after vaccines have been made available to everyone, but we should also have vaccine "checkpoints" in large public areas, where if you don't have a vaccine, you must either get a test right then and there and be denied entry.
No
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Old Yesterday, 07:19 PM   #902
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Originally Posted by prizminferno View Post
poker has been happening since last june, touching the chips is not an issue
Kinda mind blowing that we are 14 months into this and people still don't realize it's rarely spread through surfaces.
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Old Yesterday, 07:38 PM   #903
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

I find it mind blowing that people donít think chips would be an issue. Cmon people are wearing masks but they are still often touching their mouths and nose and then handling chips. They say rarely, but rarely doesnít mean never and given the number of cases it might be occurring more often and there arenít many activities similar to poker where eight different people are handling the same item and passing it around.
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Old Yesterday, 08:02 PM   #904
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Originally Posted by Poker Clif View Post
There might be another problem that we haven't considered.

What happens when pros sit down to play? A lot of them start shuffling their chips, or doing other chip tricks. Those chips move all around the table, from player to dealer to another player--you get the idea.

Unless those chips are very frequently washed and/or irradiated and/or taken out of play, everyone is sending their germs all around the table. One could argue that during a pandemic, clean chips are at least as important as wearing a mask.


Of course none of the above addresses what rest-of-world players bring with them to the United States.
Risk of COVID spread by surface contact is quite low. Covid is spread by airborne respiratory droplets. It is possible to spread covid from chip shuffling but the risk is low. Very low if there is high immunity penetration.

At some point the cost society for protecting those who have easy access to vaccines but refuse it is no longer worth it. If you can get vaccinated and choose not to at some point it is on you.
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Old Yesterday, 08:06 PM   #905
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Originally Posted by ScotchOnDaRocks View Post
I find it mind blowing that people donít think chips would be an issue. Cmon people are wearing masks but they are still often touching their mouths and nose and then handling chips. They say rarely, but rarely doesnít mean never and given the number of cases it might be occurring more often and there arenít many activities similar to poker where eight different people are handling the same item and passing it around.
As long as your chip tricks donít include you putting the chips in your mouth you are very likely to be fine. Spend your time worrying about someone coughing near you.
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Old Yesterday, 08:13 PM   #906
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Originally Posted by bahbahmickey View Post
As long as your chip tricks don’t include you putting the chips in your mouth you are very likely to be fine. Spend your time worrying about someone coughing near you.
I don’t worry about anything, I actually think it should be business as usual in Sept if trends continue

But to say in absolutes that in no way the chips can be an issue fails common sense. Cmon you don’t have to put the chips in your mouth. Then why am I not allowed to sit down at the table before someone cleans the area? Was the other guy licking the railing or felt? They have to say the chips are okay otherwise they wouldn’t be able to open, plain and simple.
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Old Yesterday, 09:35 PM   #907
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Originally Posted by ScotchOnDaRocks View Post
I donít worry about anything, I actually think it should be business as usual in Sept if trends continue

But to say in absolutes that in no way the chips can be an issue fails common sense. Cmon you donít have to put the chips in your mouth. Then why am I not allowed to sit down at the table before someone cleans the area? Was the other guy licking the railing or felt? They have to say the chips are okay otherwise they wouldnít be able to open, plain and simple.
Unfortunately, yes, itís possible the other guy was licking the rail or felt.
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Old Yesterday, 10:34 PM   #908
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Originally Posted by Poker Clif View Post
There might be another problem that we haven't considered.
It got plenty of discussion when poker was restarting in a lot of places. It's not some forgotten factor; I think it doesn't get much mention now because it's not really a big concern.

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Originally Posted by Poker Clif View Post
One could argue that during a pandemic, clean chips are at least as important as wearing a mask.
Well, I suppose one could make that argument, but I don't think it has a lot of merit. Surfaces aren't a non-factor, but they aren't a major one either. I'd say that if in 6 months the pandemic is at a place where spread via chips is a major concern, then things have taken a bad turn and there won't be a in-person WSOP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchOnDaRocks View Post
But to say in absolutes that in no way the chips can be an issue fails common sense.
I don't think that's a common stance in this thread. Aside from one person who made a brief comment that it's not an issue (which could mean none or little IMO), it seems like the only disagreement between everyone is to what extent it's an issue.
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Old Today, 02:49 AM   #909
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

The chips shouldn't be an issue because you are not supposed to touch the chips then eat with your hands or touch your mouth, nose, eyes. Those chips are dirty as **** and this was true pre-covid. Unfortunately a lot of poker players are disgusting. It amazes me how many players sit at the table and eat food with there hands after touching the chips.
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Old Today, 09:01 AM   #910
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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The chips shouldn't be an issue because you are not supposed to touch the chips then eat with your hands or touch your mouth, nose, eyes. Those chips are dirty as **** and this was true pre-covid. Unfortunately a lot of poker players are disgusting. It amazes me how many players sit at the table and eat food with there hands after touching the chips.
I didn’t see a rule posted where I’m not allowed to touch my face at all during the session.

I’m 100% fine with casinos operating and people having the freedom to play if they wish. But let’s keep it real regarding the chips. They can’t admit the chips are an issue because then they wouldn’t be able to open and casinos are too big to fail.

Same kind of thing with airplanes. When flying and in line to board the plane you must be six feet apart. But then in a few minutes you take your seat where three people are within three feet of each other. Cant have one person every other row because then the airlines would go under.
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Old Today, 09:43 AM   #911
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Originally Posted by namisgr11 View Post
No questioning the incredibly powerful effectiveness of the vaccines at this point. What's looming as a problem, though, is vaccine reluctance. It's already being felt in Mississippi and other parts of the South, where vaccine doses already delivered are sitting unused in refrigerators, and too few takers are signing up to get them.

With something like half of white Republican men having been polled as being unwilling to be vaccinated, the US is in serious jeopardy of failing to reach herd immunity, at least until such time as so many have become infected and recovered that combined with the vaccines some semblance of herd immunity is finally reached. And its quite possible that won't happen until much later than the WSOP is now scheduled to take place.
I wasn't aware that most blacks, who is the most likely group to not get the vax due to past experiments, are now Republicans. Can you please provide some data points on your statement?
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Old Today, 09:49 AM   #912
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

Amazing how many times people keep saying the same thing about the cards and chips.

It would take an exceptional sequence of events to get infected from the chips. I think a lot of people think that if there is one virus and it touches you, you have The Covid.

Please read up about viral load and fomites. Yes if someone coughs/sneezes into their hands, handles the chips, then you directly handle the soggy chips, then touch your eyes/nose/mouth without washing your hands, you could catch it. The mask hopefully prevents the first part, and your brain hopefully prevents the second part.
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Old Today, 09:56 AM   #913
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Originally Posted by Black Aces 518 View Post
Amazing how many times people keep saying the same thing about the cards and chips.

It would take an exceptional sequence of events to get infected from the chips. I think a lot of people think that if there is one virus and it touches you, you have The Covid.

Please read up about viral load and fomites. Yes if someone coughs/sneezes into their hands, handles the chips, then you directly handle the soggy chips, then touch your eyes/nose/mouth without washing your hands, you could catch it. The mask hopefully prevents the first part, and your brain hopefully prevents the second part.
But oh the restaurants can't have salt and pepper shakers on the table and can only have disposable menus. And as previously mentioned, they better clean the railing and chair before I sit down!
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Old Today, 10:06 AM   #914
DMoogle
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Originally Posted by ScotchOnDaRocks View Post
But oh the restaurants can't have salt and pepper shakers on the table and can only have disposable menus. And as previously mentioned, they better clean the railing and chair before I sit down!
Part of it is misinformation, part of it is just plain marketing. In the beginning, there was a huge push to sanitize all surfaces, due to researchers not having a great understanding of how the virus spread. Now, they do, but those discoveries haven't really been spread very well to the masses. And even for the businesses that ARE aware of it, sanitizing surfaces is a way to markets themselves as "hey, we're doing something to minimize spread," even if the methods themselves don't really do a damn thing.

From what I've heard, the best way a business can minimize spread is to install better ventilation systems... that's why airplanes are surprisingly safe, despite being as small/enclosed as they are. But there are several problems with that:
  1. It's expensive, sometimes cost-prohibitive. Way more so than cleaning surfaces.
  2. It's not an "in your face" solution - i.e. it doesn't market well, and customers/employees won't realize how big of an impact it's making because it's not obviously visible.
  3. People will probably scoff if the business stops their current sanitizing practices, because I'd bet the majority of the public still thinks unclean surfaces are still dangerous.
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Old Today, 10:09 AM   #915
madlex
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Originally Posted by ScotchOnDaRocks View Post
Same kind of thing with airplanes. When flying and in line to board the plane you must be six feet apart. But then in a few minutes you take your seat where three people are within three feet of each other. Cant have one person every other row because then the airlines would go under.
Airports don't have HEPA filters, large commercial airplanes do. Smaller, regional aircrafts often don't though.

I think there have been two (maybe three?) occurrences where a flight has turned into some kind of super spreader event. So there's certainly a risk. That said, pre-Covid, the vast majority of people weren't concerned about flying because it's statistically the safest form of transportation. Even though there are roughly 10-20 accidents with commercial aircrafts every year.

If somebody asked me what I would be more worried about, catching a severe case of Covid aboard an Airbus A330 or crashing on a 'but this time we're really save, pinky swear!' Boeing 737 Max, I'd pick the latter one.

I'd add "Covid chips" to the list of things that everyone should make a personal decision about. Not comfortable playing with dirty chips? Just don't go to the casino. Same as with tables at restaurants.
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Old Today, 10:25 AM   #916
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

Well I would imagine those filters on the plane wonít help if the guy next to you has Covid and particles head directly your way. But sure there is some comfort in knowing that the recycled air is safe.

Iím 100% cool with casinos and airplanes running. The main point is that what is considered ďsafeĒ or ďunsafeĒ often comes down to who owns what, do they have political clout, are they too big to fail etc etc. Poker chips are incredibly dirty, Iím not going to believe anyone who tells me handling them is perfectly safe. I just like keeping it real.
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Old Today, 11:24 AM   #917
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Originally Posted by mikeyfan420 View Post
I wasn't aware that most blacks, who is the most likely group to not get the vax due to past experiments, are now Republicans. Can you please provide some data points on your statement?
A full half of white Republican men polled that they will refuse to take a vaccine. Marist/PBS poll:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/vaccine...epublican-men/

Every well powered and randomized poll conducted in the US on whether a person will definitely take a vaccine, currently unsure, or definitely not take one that tracks race, gender, and party affiliation provides the data you seek. There are at least a dozen large national and regional polls in consensus.
Here's another, Kaiser Foundation poll:
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-m...-demographics/

Last edited by namisgr11; Today at 11:44 AM.
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Old Today, 11:59 AM   #918
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Originally Posted by ScotchOnDaRocks View Post
I donít worry about anything, I actually think it should be business as usual in Sept if trends continue

But to say in absolutes that in no way the chips can be an issue fails common sense. Cmon you donít have to put the chips in your mouth. Then why am I not allowed to sit down at the table before someone cleans the area? Was the other guy licking the railing or felt? They have to say the chips are okay otherwise they wouldnít be able to open, plain and simple.
you're not allowed to sit depending on jurisdiction because regulators want to do something even if it's pointless. it obviously doesn't hurt to clean the table and chair but it's not like i'm gonna go home and start licking the back of my pants when i go home.
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Old Today, 05:24 PM   #919
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Originally Posted by mikeyfan420 View Post
I wasn't aware that most blacks, who is the most likely group to not get the vax due to past experiments, are now Republicans. Can you please provide some data points on your statement?
That African Americans would not take tha vaccines was a possibility based on the past. Such might even have some justification. But the actuality is that African Americans on the whole have been getting vaccinated at higher rates than their social, political and economic white peers.
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