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Old 04-08-2021, 08:42 AM   #826
cdjim
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Originally Posted by Tarqtheproud View Post
Great article, itís good to see Vegas coming back. But personally for myself and others, we canít commit to WSOP until we see the restrictions on masks, plexiglass, distancing lifted or made optional. I think a lot of us are with Daniel when he says grinding for 12+ hours in a mask would be uncomfortable. Even with breaks every two levels I donít want to deal with it. Hats off to those who can do that.
Pretty sure I could find 'experts' positing the exact opposite view fairly easily. Until there is significantly higher uptake of the vaccines worldwide and more data on the length of their effectiveness any predictions on the extent or quality of recovery are pretty meaningless as there remains too much uncertainty as to what will happen with the pandemic.

Just for the sake of argument: if you think grinding for 12+ hours in a mask would be uncomfortable, how comfortable do you think it would be lying in a hospital bed for days/weeks wearing one 24/7. It's also surprising that anyone is still working as a Doctor or Nurse a this point, if wearing one for 12+ hour shifts is so onerous.

I think that anyone hoping for the WSOP to be completely free of masks, plexiglass, social distancing & 10 handed is going to be very disappointed. There is almost certainly going to be some form of mitigation measure in place, even if it is just to protect the staff working the event rather than to protect the players.
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Old 04-08-2021, 09:47 AM   #827
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Pretty sure I could find 'experts' positing the exact opposite view fairly easily. Until there is significantly higher uptake of the vaccines worldwide and more data on the length of their effectiveness any predictions on the extent or quality of recovery are pretty meaningless as there remains too much uncertainty as to what will happen with the pandemic.

Just for the sake of argument: if you think grinding for 12+ hours in a mask would be uncomfortable, how comfortable do you think it would be lying in a hospital bed for days/weeks wearing one 24/7. It's also surprising that anyone is still working as a Doctor or Nurse a this point, if wearing one for 12+ hour shifts is so onerous.

I think that anyone hoping for the WSOP to be completely free of masks, plexiglass, social distancing & 10 handed is going to be very disappointed. There is almost certainly going to be some form of mitigation measure in place, even if it is just to protect the staff working the event rather than to protect the players.
Yes thereís different views of course.
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Old 04-08-2021, 10:08 AM   #828
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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I think that anyone hoping for the WSOP to be completely free of masks, plexiglass, social distancing & 10 handed is going to be very disappointed. There is almost certainly going to be some form of mitigation measure in place, even if it is just to protect the staff working the event rather than to protect the players.
You can certainly hope for all of that without being "very disappointed" if something on your list was still in place. I hope for a cure for cancer. Does that mean I wake up disappointed every day because there isn't one yet?

Based on the tentative dates, the WSOP is supposed to start exactly 25 weeks from today. That's almost half a year. A lot of people across the world work very hard for life to be back to having as little restrictions as possible.

FWIW, we already know the WSOP won't be completely free of masks. Even without a mask mandate, there will be people who decide to wear one. But I'd be willing to offer 1:1 odds about no plexiglass at the majority of tables in the WSOP area (all tournaments and cash games).
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Old 04-08-2021, 10:35 AM   #829
cdjim
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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You can certainly hope for all of that without being "very disappointed" if something on your list was still in place. I hope for a cure for cancer. Does that mean I wake up disappointed every day because there isn't one yet?

Based on the tentative dates, the WSOP is supposed to start exactly 25 weeks from today. That's almost half a year. A lot of people across the world work very hard for life to be back to having as little restrictions as possible.

FWIW, we already know the WSOP won't be completely free of masks. Even without a mask mandate, there will be people who decide to wear one. But I'd be willing to offer 1:1 odds about no plexiglass at the majority of tables in the WSOP area (all tournaments and cash games).
25 weeks is a long time at the moment, things could be much better or they could be much worse. However, 25 weeks is not enough time for the Global situation to have improved dramatically, but it is enough time for the US situation to have worsened either due to virus mutations, resurgence or the vaccines not giving as long lasting immunity as we are hoping for. At the micro level we are seeing some return to normality in countries with good vaccination programs, but at the macro level only a tiny fraction of the world's population have been vaccinated

I agree with you regarding the WSOP and plexiglass, the cost for the no. of tables would be prohibitive. However, even if there is no federal or state mask mandate, the WSOP as a private entity could require one to be worn as a t&c of participation, and I would not be surprised if they chose to go this route.
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Old 04-08-2021, 10:59 AM   #830
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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25 weeks is a long time at the moment, things could be much better or they could be much worse.
In the (highly) unlikely case of things being much worse, nobody is going to bother about the WSOP anyway.

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At the micro level we are seeing some return to normality in countries with good vaccination programs, but at the macro level only a tiny fraction of the world's population have been vaccinated
I think we can assume that travel into the US will stay highly restricted from parts of the world that aren't deemed save. Besides that, the vast majority of foreigners traveling to the US for the WSOP are from first world countries where everyone should have access to vaccines by September. And the people traveling from other parts of the world should find a way to get vaccinated even if the general population can't. We have family/friends in Iran. All of them went to Dubai to get vaccinated months ago.
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Old 04-08-2021, 11:16 AM   #831
cdjim
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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In the (highly) unlikely case of things being much worse, nobody is going to bother about the WSOP anyway.


I think we can assume that travel into the US will stay highly restricted from parts of the world that aren't deemed save. Besides that, the vast majority of foreigners traveling to the US for the WSOP are from first world countries where everyone should have access to vaccines by September. And the people traveling from other parts of the world should find a way to get vaccinated even if the general population can't. We have family/friends in Iran. All of them went to Dubai to get vaccinated months ago.
I don't really disagree with any of the points that you have made, they are all the most likely course of events. However, they all assume a best case scenario where everything goes according to plan and there are no hiccups. With everything we know about Covid, pandemics, the world and life generally, things rarely go so perfectly to plan.
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Old 04-08-2021, 11:19 AM   #832
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

How may people per table will wear a mask given no mandate?

I was guessing 1 out of 9? Maybe a bit higher but not a ton I think.
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Old 04-08-2021, 11:49 AM   #833
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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I hope that it happens, but live poker tournaments seem like one of the least viable activities during a pandemic. There are just so many contact points and people sharing close quarters. All it would take is one person to spread the virus like wildfire, so maybe it's simply not going to happen without widespread herd immunity and/or vaccination.

Are there things they could do to limit the damage? Yes. They could do a charity event for COVID relief upfront to minimize negative PR. They can require masks and gloves. They can attempt to sterilize playing surfaces and chips. A lot of this still largely amounts to placebo since one infected person coughing in the bathroom could be enough to cause a massive outbreak.

It's really unfortunate for players and organizers. I hope they figure it out and if it DOES happen, I would really recommend going. It's a fun time.
I have not played live for quite a while. I'm getting my poker time in by studying poker videos and playing on ACR. I got my second vaccine a month ago.

I have two concerns about live play. The first is obvious: How do you have social distancing with 10 people (nine players and a dealer) around a table?

The second is chips. There is no way to keep several players (and the dealer) from sharing the same chips. A lot of people touch, or cough on, the same chips during play.
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Old 04-08-2021, 11:53 AM   #834
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Originally Posted by cdjim View Post
I think that anyone hoping for the WSOP to be completely free of masks, plexiglass, social distancing & 10 handed is going to be very disappointed. There is almost certainly going to be some form of mitigation measure in place, even if it is just to protect the staff working the event rather than to protect the players.
The WSOP could very easily be run with no masks or social distancing or other mitigation in place. They just need to require proof of vaccination to play.

I don't understand why so much of our health policy apparently revolves around appeasing plandemic anti-vax conspiracy theorists.
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Old 04-08-2021, 11:56 AM   #835
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

There won't be plexiglass in Vegas this summer, most of the rooms will probably remove it after May 1 even
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Old 04-08-2021, 12:01 PM   #836
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Originally Posted by Poker Clif View Post
I have not played live for quite a while. I'm getting my poker time in by studying poker videos and playing on ACR. I got my second vaccine a month ago.

I have two concerns about live play. The first is obvious: How do you have social distancing with 10 people (nine players and a dealer) around a table?

The second is chips. There is no way to keep several players (and the dealer) from sharing the same chips. A lot of people touch, or cough on, the same chips during play.
Your concerns are valid. However, recent studies show they may not be all that important:
On social distancing: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/14/h...ng-3-feet.html - this specifically looks at schools, but the takeaway was that there's no substantial difference between 3ft distance and 6ft distance. Of course, at a poker table, you're typically crammed much closer than that... probably to the point that there is a significant difference between 3ft and <1ft.

On chips: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...nsmission.html - says the chance of transmission from infected surfaces is less than 10,000. Keep hands away from face, and you should be OK.
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Old 04-08-2021, 12:17 PM   #837
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

Yea, the 1 in 10,000 on infected surfaces is probably right, but that doesn't include you touching your face, eyes, inside nose. Which people do without even thinking about it dozens of times per hour.
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Old 04-08-2021, 12:20 PM   #838
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Originally Posted by Poker Clif View Post
I have not played live for quite a while. I'm getting my poker time in by studying poker videos and playing on ACR. I got my second vaccine a month ago.

I have two concerns about live play. The first is obvious: How do you have social distancing with 10 people (nine players and a dealer) around a table?

The second is chips. There is no way to keep several players (and the dealer) from sharing the same chips. A lot of people touch, or cough on, the same chips during play.
If you are vaccinated, why are you concerned about any of this?
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Old 04-08-2021, 12:23 PM   #839
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

You seem to think that if you are vaccinated that you have zero chance of catching covid. Also the vaccination may only last 6 months and may only work on a few variants. And new variants coming all the time.
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Old 04-08-2021, 12:25 PM   #840
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Originally Posted by NickMPK View Post
The WSOP could very easily be run with no masks or social distancing or other mitigation in place. They just need to require proof of vaccination to play.

I don't understand why so much of our health policy apparently revolves around appeasing plandemic anti-vax conspiracy theorists.
The fact that there would be no WSOP this year if it was not for the vaccines should justify the dismissal of how any anti-vaxxer would feel about a vaccine requirement. Not to mention it would just plain be good for business for the WSOP to require one. There is a much higher market for playing poker in a safe environment with no masks than otherwise.

The problem will be the WSOP figuring out a non pain in the ass procedure for the proof of vaccine.
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Old 04-08-2021, 12:59 PM   #841
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Yea, the 1 in 10,000 on infected surfaces is probably right, but that doesn't include you touching your face, eyes, inside nose. Which people do without even thinking about it dozens of times per hour.
True, but if you're wearing a mask, at least that should prevent some of that direct unconscious touching.

Last edited by madlex; 04-08-2021 at 02:08 PM. Reason: Removed deleted quote
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Old 04-08-2021, 01:25 PM   #842
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

The thing I like about this is customers ultimately get to decide what they want by choosing who they give their business to. If WSOP makes people wear masks or have vaccines and some players don't like that, there are competitors in town who may host a series with rules they prefer.

I understand that the WSOP has the history etc. but other properties can put marquee events on their schedules and hopefully there will end up being something for everyone.
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Old 04-08-2021, 01:26 PM   #843
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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You seem to think that if you are vaccinated that you have zero chance of catching covid. Also the vaccination may only last 6 months and may only work on a few variants. And new variants coming all the time.
You are just making up hypotheticals out of thin air. It's just more anti-vax conspiracy theories that have no scientific grounding.

All the scientific evidence thus far suggests that all the covid vaccines in use in the US are virtually 100% effective at preventing serious illness and death from all known covid variants, with effectiveness of at least 9 months (and likely much longer). They are not 100% effective at entirely preventing mild covid infection, but they are effective enough that once you are vaccinated, your risk of spreading the virus is extremely minimal.
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Old 04-08-2021, 02:09 PM   #844
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

Guys, I thought we were over the flu bros stuff?

FWIW, you can save your time responding to posts like that because they’re going to be removed anyway.
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Old 04-08-2021, 02:32 PM   #845
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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How may people per table will wear a mask given no mandate?

I was guessing 1 out of 9? Maybe a bit higher but not a ton I think.
I bet it will be higher, not out of caution, but for the grinders who hate the social aspect of poker (and make the game worse for everyone). In fact I can see down the road, when the virus isn't a concern anymore, people still wearing a mask to hide their face. Add a hat and sunglasses and you might as well be playing online. I imagine it would be pretty difficult for the casinos to say "no masks at the table" after all this.
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Old 04-08-2021, 02:45 PM   #846
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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You are just making up hypotheticals out of thin air. It's just more anti-vax conspiracy theories that have no scientific grounding.

All the scientific evidence thus far suggests that all the covid vaccines in use in the US are virtually 100% effective at preventing serious illness and death from all known covid variants, with effectiveness of at least 9 months (and likely much longer). They are not 100% effective at entirely preventing mild covid infection, but they are effective enough that once you are vaccinated, your risk of spreading the virus is extremely minimal.
Yeah agreed. My wife and I have personally been following CDC recommendations to the T since the start. There's a point where the risk is mitigated enough that we really don't have to worry about it. For me personally, getting the vaccine is that tipping point.
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Guys, I thought we were over the flu bros stuff?

FWIW, you can save your time responding to posts like that because theyíre going to be removed anyway.
Thanks madlex.
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Originally Posted by MontyBurns View Post
I bet it will be higher, not out of caution, but for the grinders who hate the social aspect of poker (and make the game worse for everyone). In fact I can see down the road, when the virus isn't a concern anymore, people still wearing a mask to hide their face. Add a hat and sunglasses and you might as well be playing online. I imagine it would be pretty difficult for the casinos to say "no masks at the table" after all this.
Agreed with this, plus I suspect international players are MUCH more likely to wear a mask overall. Wouldn't be surprised if over 50% of international players wear masks even if they're not required.
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Old 04-08-2021, 02:58 PM   #847
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Texas Rangers home game yesterday with 38,000 fans, no attendance restrictions, supposed to wear masks when not eating or drinking but didn't look like many were. I guess most people would be eating or drinking all the time any way. lol

Meanwhile in canada we get locked down for another 4 weeks. literally total shutdown. the fat ****ing ****sucker running our provincial government should be strung up in the streets.

love that pic tho, its how it should be everywhere in north america by now.
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Old 04-08-2021, 03:41 PM   #848
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

We will be back to "go at your own risk" unless something drastically changes. I have been sick numerous times over the years after going to the WSOP, but I still go. I am hoping we see more 8 max to give everyone some room. Voluntarily wearing masks might be good idea in any year to prevent the spread of viruses. People will definitely still wear them, especially being stuck at a table with 10 other people all from different parts of the world, but I doubt they are going to require it.

Id be more concerned with a surge in cold and flu viruses for the fall and winter of this year, as this past year not many cases of those illnesses, so less herd immunity. The threat of getting covid much less having serious complications will be very small, relative to other things, given you have the vaccine. People are having an unrealistic expectation if they think that all risk of getting a contagious illness and dying now has to be eliminated.
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Old 04-08-2021, 04:04 PM   #849
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

Someone can correct me on this but as far as I am aware, Gov. Sisolak hasn't rescinded the mask mandate so if this remains the case there would be mask requirements. Even if rescinded the casino can still mandate it. Idk tho we will see. Would love to take off my face diaper
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Old 04-08-2021, 04:40 PM   #850
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Re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

would put it a near lock for masks to be mandated
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