Thomas Pinnock of Zenith Poker Involved in HS Heads Up Cheating Scandal - Page 5 - Poker News

i think the arbs really screwed this up. if you look at football, they are reviewing videos of the other teams play all the time to try and find a weakness. the idea that this is anywhere near super using is absurd. poker strategies are variable. I think that the coach is guilty of a violation of trust wrt to his former student and is pretty scummy, but I don't see why the player should be penalized because of that, the student owes no duty of care to his opponent in a hu grudge match. and since when can someone lose a poker match and then whine that things were unfair and get the money back. that's absurd.

I agree stats are part of poker. The issue is how you get them.

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05-23-2023 , 07:50 AM

#102

jshua

stranger

Join Date: May 2023 Posts: 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by franklymydearirais

or perhaps it is like the coach from one team transferring to another team and telling his new team how to play against the old team on the basis of him knowing the playbook

This is the sort of analogy I used when describing the situation to bystanders.

To me, it's akin to a college's assistant coach having been a coach at a high school in which their opposition's QB played at, and leaking the old high school's playbook to their current staff. This in itself doesn't seem terribly detrimental to the opposition. What was agreed upon was that lying about knowledge of the playbook was unethical.

Last edited by jshua; 05-23-2023 at 07:59 AM.

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05-23-2023 , 12:42 PM

#103

rdedrde1

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2021 Posts: 109

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goinhardinthepaint

Also, if people are wondering why I chose Thomas, it's explained in this video at ~41:50 in this video. Note I didn't mention him having Brown's db as a factor in my decision.

https://youtu.be/rUcjHR1XT1Q

Right I watched this section of the video.

I think it's instructive for any1 getting coaching or wanting to be a coach (especially @ a high price point) to have regular periods to say to the student/client: how is this format working out for you? Is there anything else you need?

............

I want to tell you my thought process if I was the coach of paint during the challenge:

I want this guy to win the challenge. ($ is not an issue) I will do my utmost to teach this guy any (relevant) lesson I know that increases the % he wins (even by a small amount.)

From watching Thomas on the YouTube videos, everything seems so clinical to him. Like there doesn't seem to be any emotional connection to the student, to the challenge, it's as if he's a robot ��

I have said it previously in the thread but I'm seeing nothing I gravitate to. But I am not paint. And I def ain't willing to pay $300/hour to speak to him.

Last edited by rdedrde1; 05-23-2023 at 12:47 PM.

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05-23-2023 , 12:44 PM

#104

rdedrde1

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2021 Posts: 109

Quote:

Originally Posted by jshua

To me, it's akin to a college's assistant coach having been a coach at a high school in which their opposition's QB played at, and leaking the old high school's playbook to their current staff. This in itself doesn't seem terribly detrimental to the opposition. What was agreed upon was that lying about knowledge of the playbook was unethical.

Does any1 know when Brandon found out Thomas/zenith was paint's coach? And how they got the info?

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05-24-2023 , 12:12 AM

#105

MastaAces

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 10,008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koshko

HAHA i just watched that video.
Paint - So do you have anything to say about the Q9 hand?
Thomas- Ah i suggest you have a look at the river instruction again in your own time.

Ie look at the solver in your own time.

Instead of simply saying, do you think Vil is capable of checking back the flop with 78 and on the river how much 78 do we theoretically think that he has in his range and how should we adjust our strategy moving forward.

If my coach said that to me i would of ended the call and asked for a refund.

"take a look at your ranges" look "check down hands"

My nora what on earth gave this guy credentials to be a coach

This video consits of the student literally coaching Thomas and Thomas just piggy backing on the end of every question reiterating what paint has asked.

Paint also has a very poor understanding of blockers and unblockers that should of been fixed from day one.

3 hands that Paint has asked questions on in the video- Thomas's response " I really think you need to look hard at that spot"

Disgraceful

i just watched the first 15 minutes and the "coach" has said about 15 words in this time. the words that he did decide to utter were superfluous and may as well been kept to himself. what the **** is this? if i didn't know any better i would've thought the student was the coach (and not that hung over guy looking bored and half asleep). it's really tilting so i won't be watching the rest, but i have no reason to assume it gets any better.

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05-24-2023 , 02:53 AM

#106

500kg

journeyman

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 279

That's what poker coaching is half the time - some grifter talking a load of gobbledygook usually followed by the phrase "we can do this at a low frequency".

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05-24-2023 , 09:19 AM

#107

dude45

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2019 Posts: 2,806

Quote:

Originally Posted by 500kg

That's what poker coaching is half the time - some grifter talking a load of gobbledygook usually followed by the phrase "we can do this at a low frequency".

Lots of **** can be done at a low frequency so technically they're usually not wrong.

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05-24-2023 , 10:01 AM

#108

Koshko

adept

Join Date: Mar 2021 Posts: 901

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude45

Lots of **** can be done at a low frequency so technically they're usually not wrong.

What looking at the spots on your own… at a low frequency lol.

You can also hire a more experienced coach… at a low frequency.

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05-26-2023 , 03:15 PM

#109

HokieGreg

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,726

The last few coaching sessions have been a lot better. Adding in a 2nd coach has helped to reduce the net sociopathy to a level where productive discussion can be had. Pinnock operating more in his wheelhouse w Monker and stuff since Paint told him what's what.

Sessions 16-20 are actually pretty interesting if anyone is looking for some solid free strategy content. Sessions 1-15 are more up your alley if you are into awkward silences, long soulless stares into the abyss, and one word answers to complex questions.

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05-27-2023 , 12:10 PM

#110

crowned

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 238

Thomas sounds and looks like a Sociopath/Psychopath. I don't think I ever had this type of disgusted feeling looking at another person. His lack of expression, monotone voice and look of boredom apathy towards his student is pretty astounding. I feel sorry for his student. He probably has a **** ton of things to say to him that he just keeps to himself.

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05-27-2023 , 12:24 PM

#111

rdedrde1

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2021 Posts: 109

Quote:

Originally Posted by crowned

+1

And...

It only costs you between $250 and $300 per hour to experience this/have the honor to be in his presence.

(I dont know who's worse. Thomas for being Thomas. Idiot students willing to pay the money to be coached by Thomas. Or idiot arbitrators who recommend Thomas to potential students over any1 else that can coach him. The whole situation is a big mindf**k for me.)

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05-27-2023 , 06:55 PM

#112

HokieGreg

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,726

Quote:

Originally Posted by crowned

Agreed man. It's really a sight to behold. I could care less about the poker drama/arbitration stuff. I've just found watching their sessions fascinating on a human level. Paint very likeable. Thomas with school shooter vibes. Hopefully there is a Season 2.

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05-28-2023 , 12:00 AM

#113

hogemperor

newbie

Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goinhardinthepaint

I had started working with Thomas about a month prior to the challenge, but what you're referencing is the reworking of a previous deal I had with Thomas, where instead of the flat fee I was paying him, as well as a commission of I think around $2000 if I won the challenge, I would pay out 10% of my winnings beyond the reworking of the deal, as well as some flat fee for coaching (the details are in the video) and I'd have access to more zenith coaches and more preflop sims. Probably didn't need that stuff but that deal was bringing Marcus on board and changing up our Zenith's compensation. As stated in the video, Zenith's compensation was the flat rate, as well as a 10% commission on profits beyond the point when the deal was struck, at which point I was already smashing BBrown.

Also, if people are wondering why I chose Thomas, it's explained in this video at ~41:50 in this video. Note I didn't mention him having Brown's db as a factor in my decision.

https://youtu.be/rUcjHR1XT1Q

Did Thomas refund you what you paid? Seems he should have.

Also wow this guy is maybe the worst coach ever and gives off hardcore serial killer vibes. I would be terrified to have him as my doctor.

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05-28-2023 , 02:50 AM

#114

Goinhardinthepaint

newbie

Join Date: Dec 2021 Posts: 32

Quote:

Originally Posted by hogemperor

Did Thomas refund you what you paid? Seems he should have.

Also wow this guy is maybe the worst coach ever and gives off hardcore serial killer vibes. I would be terrified to have him as my doctor.

Hi, no, I asked for a refund but it was denied.

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05-28-2023 , 07:02 AM

#115

crowned

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 238

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goinhardinthepaint

Hi, no, I asked for a refund but it was denied.

You should call your ex-paratrooper force and infiltrate his establishment. Then tie him up and force him to have to study his 20 preflop preflop sizes and 6 post flop sizes while being completely blindfolded.