Fair enough. If that’s actually it, then I would ask for a refund for the coaching.

I’m cracking up at “assume everything is fine unless I say otherwise” response. Imagine having an attitude towards your student at that point.

Jshua here (aka original arbitrator). AMA

Even if you had 100,000 hands 2 years is a very long time and if I was being exploited by another player at heads up, I would of quickly constructed a counter strat.

I really feel like this whole situation would be no different than someone having stats on someone from 2 years ago from a 6 max game that was gathered from themselves. As a heads up player it’s your job to devise counter strategies and not play a fixed Strat.

It’s not like the database consisted of some RTA that was developed a few weeks ago and contained a start on exactly how to play from sizings from stats.

The player still has to know how to play vs the sizings and the player still has to deviate from gto when possible. Putting this into practice waiting for a spot they have seen from 6k hands 2 years ago is laughable.

It’s also pretty laughable that zenith even whipped that out to use as information. It would literally be worthless.

Like 2.5 open and 10bb 3bet is even more laughable.

Are you rat holing past 150 bbs? Come on

I think it's time for Joshua to answer a couple of q's based off the chat screenshot i cant add ��

1. (i get there arent many reputable hu coaches around but 'thomas') seriously????!!!!!

2. you said thomas is v smart and out of the box.

i'm not asking you to be his cheerleader but tell me what you see...

some people in this thread have watched/seen some of the youtube releases of the coaching and there seems to be v little positive opinions on thomas' contribution to the student's problem/situation.

You genuinely must be the best hu reg in the world.

Mind you, I haven't even talked to Thomas 1 on 1 in over a year at that point (as part of my contract renewal demands) at the point in which I have this exchange with paint, and hadn't received coaching from Thomas in approx 2 years. What I do know is that Thomas is 1) very smart & 2) extremely creative. If someone trying to grind past 6max 100nl came to me for coaching advice, my suggestion would be completely different

Ironically, I do stand by my initial suggestion in the sense that I had the appropriate characteristics in mind, in addition to them being accurate; however, hard to anticipate someone going out of their way to cheat

I could be misinterpreting but is OP (ThomasPinnockScam) the hu opponent in the match (Brandon)?

If yes i have an issue.

I cant seem to see it in the thread but wasnt there a list of stats that you claim were exploited by paint/zenith?

1. why dont you reveal the exact spots and the exact numbers?

firstly you can use the experience of a now non-hu battle (because of arbritator's decision to void match) to completely change these parts of your game. (whether you wanted to or not.)

2. i will ask question 1 again: why dont you reveal the exact spots and the exact numbers?

we can all have a look and decide whether there was a legitimate argument over voiding the match.

the ruling has been made. all parties have accepted but in fairness to paint, even if the people in this thread are biased and not totally objective we have no horse in this debate.

if this was the smoking gun that = the match being voided i'm sure some1 can give a balanced overview on everything that happened.

This is my point:

No1's flaming you. And i'm not trying to dig deeper about your relationship with him in anyway, im not interested in that party of the story. You have had a professional relationship with him, you see what you see in Thomas, his company zenith poker and his coaching.

What i'm saying is nobody else does. From the videos recently released and which i only flicked through (rather than a comprehensive study) i tell you what i saw: absolutely NOTHING.

I am not a high stakes poker player, i'm not a theorist. I saw nothing in this guy to make me want to pay $x for his coaching or even spend 10 minutes of my time with him.

What does he offer? What does he bring?

Legitimate question. First off, I'd offer a hard push on him offering "nothing." In my review of the tapes, he certainly offers quite a bit of good coaching advice. He did the same when he coached myself in addition to several other guys that seemed to be at least mildly satisfied with his services. What I will say though is that he was pretty bad value. He'd often spend time during sessions 'hemming & hawing', per se.

Second off, his general intuition for poker theory seemed to be high quality. I'm not here to evaluate the veracity of that, but it certainly seemed to be. I still believe that to be the case.

I'm not Brandon, but the arbitration team got the full details of the breakdown, as far as I know. This was a team of 5 independent arbs that were selected by both parties, and no one is disputing their ruling, including Paint.

I am very interested to see what stats over 6k hands from 2 years ago lead to the arb team confirming cheating.

Database statistics were not what was considered (at least not heavily, as I understand it) as to the legitimacy of cheating claims. Nor do I think they should've been considered. Brown made some arguments with some statistical analysis as to why he thought his opposition might be cheating. As someone who had been a professional statistician in the past, they were nonsense arguments. The evidence of wrongdoing were sufficient without those arguments.

The real scam here is that this Pincock sells coaching. Having watched clips of his YouTube series and listening to him speak (and sit through his extended lapses of silence during any attempt for postflop discusson), it is astonishing to believe that this psycho actually thought releasing this content was beneficial for his brand.

Paint, you got scammed for paying this chump a cent

Can the arb team come out and explain what this significant edge is?


Fwiw I have 0 horse in the race but have played heads up at the highest level for a significant portion of my life and I can’t seem to wrap my head around what evidence or how was called cheating.

I will go back to my earlier point (if you learn 1 thing you didn't know then maybe paying for coaching is a good investment):

The sickening part about this situation for paint is he was up 23 buyin's before Thomas/zenith started coaching him. Due to the arbitrators ruling he had to pay all his winnings back to Brandon, @ the time down in the challenge.

And here are the 3 kickers:

1. Joshua (the original arb) recommended Thomas as a good Hu coach. (Joshua had an earlier relationship with Thomas that had gone sour but he still respected his abilities.) If paint had chosen any other poker coach on the planet the challenge wouldn't have been voided.
2. The players had to eat the rake themselves .
3. Paint (afaik) paid $15k for zenith/Thomas coaching for the challenge. (They are discussing the arrangement in 1 of the videos on YouTube. Funny enough Thomas says v little for 1 hour except he thinks he's entitled to a split of the sidebet.)

Imo it was 1 helluva expensive placebo ��

I had started working with Thomas about a month prior to the challenge, but what you're referencing is the reworking of a previous deal I had with Thomas, where instead of the flat fee I was paying him, as well as a commission of I think around $2000 if I won the challenge, I would pay out 10% of my winnings beyond the reworking of the deal, as well as some flat fee for coaching (the details are in the video) and I'd have access to more zenith coaches and more preflop sims. Probably didn't need that stuff but that deal was bringing Marcus on board and changing up our Zenith's compensation. As stated in the video, Zenith's compensation was the flat rate, as well as a 10% commission on profits beyond the point when the deal was struck, at which point I was already smashing BBrown.

Also, if people are wondering why I chose Thomas, it's explained in this video at ~41:50 in this video. Note I didn't mention him having Brown's db as a factor in my decision.

https://youtu.be/rUcjHR1XT1Q

If I had to guess I had only paid 6 or 7k at the conclusion of the challenge since I was paying as we went so I didn't shell out the total amount, however I was not refunded any of that.

TRY GETTING A RESERVATION FOR COACHING NOW YOU STUPID ****ING BASTARD!

I've been practicing law for over 40 years, including gaming law for over 25 years. I've been involved as counsel in more than a few arbitrations along the way.

I have NEVER heard of an arbitration with 5, count 'em 5, arbitrators on the same matter.

Sounds very odd, sorry.

"Mike Lindell sufficient" ?

i think the arbs really screwed this up. if you look at football, they are reviewing videos of the other teams play all the time to try and find a weakness. the idea that this is anywhere near super using is absurd. poker strategies are variable. I think that the coach is guilty of a violation of trust wrt to his former student and is pretty scummy, but I don't see why the player should be penalized because of that, the student owes no duty of care to his opponent in a hu grudge match. and since when can someone lose a poker match and then whine that things were unfair and get the money back. that's absurd.

Seeing thousands of hands that never reached showdown is more akin to stealing the other team's playbook than it is to watching film.

or perhaps it is like the coach from one team transferring to another team and telling his new team how to play against the old team on the basis of him knowing the playbook

You handled that convo like a boss. You articulated your thoughts with poise, firmness, and respect and his response is "................................................. ..................Ok, so if you want to do that you should just raise all his river probes...........................................s o you want to review some hands?" Unreal. Pinnock seems absolutely dead inside.

HAHA i just watched that video.
Paint - So do you have anything to say about the Q9 hand?
Thomas- Ah i suggest you have a look at the river instruction again in your own time.


Ie look at the solver in your own time.

Instead of simply saying, do you think Vil is capable of checking back the flop with 78 and on the river how much 78 do we theoretically think that he has in his range and how should we adjust our strategy moving forward.


If my coach said that to me i would of ended the call and asked for a refund.

"take a look at your ranges" look "check down hands"

My nora what on earth gave this guy credentials to be a coach

This video consits of the student literally coaching Thomas and Thomas just piggy backing on the end of every question reiterating what paint has asked.

Paint also has a very poor understanding of blockers and unblockers that should of been fixed from day one.


3 hands that Paint has asked questions on in the video- Thomas's response " I really think you need to look hard at that spot"

Disgraceful