How about that they’re unregulated and shady for most US players?

Also the insane late reg.

Lol what. The game isn’t about the concerns of online poker professionals

Hypers and turbos are where it’s at. People /recs are too time poor now for 15 hour MTT sessions. We have families, and proper careers/businesses to run.

The late reg thing is annoying but the sites have their own agenda

Most of these problems go away with zooms;
Late reg is 2 hours max and the tourny goes 6-8 hours max
Most zooms are in the 2-4 hour range
Allows recs quicker tourny times while allowing regs to play more hands (4x as many hands per hour)

I never understood why they're not more popular, they are the funnest, fastest and even lowest variance (if you re looking at it from a reg perspective) tournies

If all tournaments were Zoom tournaments, it wouldn't be long until late reg would be 4+hours. Site operators love late reg, it means more re-entries, bigger prize pools, and (most importantly) more vig for the operator.

IME, and I'm not and never have been a tournament pro, it's the casuals who want "good structures." I think there was a point in time where like every tournament was a "super" stack or "double" stack or "mega" stack. Casual players want a lot of "play" for their buy-in. By comparison, faster structures provide a much better hourly win rate for pros, and pros should be substantially better than casuals at navigating rapidly changing average stacks and ICM scenarios.

As a quick thought experiment, let's assume there's no late reg (its own beast) and you can only play one tournament at a time. Tournaments are identical in every way except Tournament A takes 4 hours to complete and Tournament B takes 8 hours to complete. Your ROI in Tournament B would need to be twice what it is in Tournament A for your hourly win-rate to be better by playing Tournament B. Do you really think that whatever edge a slower structure might provide a pro is that big? I find that incredibly hard to believe, especially given that rec players will find tons of ways to punt even playing relatively short. Btw, I'm sure there is data on this that can confirm or deny.

I don't think all should be, but I doubt it really makes much difference beyond 2 hours, the only people really regging at that point are the super rich crushers who can afford to keep firing with 10-30bb.

Looking back at the recent series on Stars, the zooms hit their stated guarantee and most went over 1.5 to even 2x the amount, whereas many of the regular non zooms barely hit their guarantee.

this was my line of thought. As a recreational, you also get more for your money. By definition the goal is not to make money long run, but to enjoy the fun of the game. Better structures provide this.


you are implying that professional online poker players do not have families to take care of, looks like right away you just deal with a stereotype.

"the game is isn't about the concerns of online poker professionals" If I go to Mercedes to buy a car, I would like good quality and at the same time the fairest prices possible. I do however not go to the factory workers and employees and **** on them saying their wages should not be considered. I do not demand working conditions for them becoming so bad that they can barely if at all survive in life anymore, only to have a nice car at a nice price.
Spare me the talk about poker players not providing anything of value. We can have the same discussion about professional Basketball players or Soccer players, Twitch Streamers etc. Everyone in their profession wants to be able to provide for their family.

It sounds like you are playing poker recreationally and have yourself a "proper business" to run. It sounds very much like you are looking down on professional poker players, like your life and job are more important. Why then, when you are only playing poker for fun and you have a successful career and family, should only your concerns about the game be considered exactly?

It is getting tiring to see the same kind of talk over and over again from resentful people, businessmen and sponsored poker players already set up for life, shaming other professionals into not standing up for what is good for them. Honestly that is even the only explanation I have for why not more regs have been openly discussing these issues.

I want higher quality MTTs again for online poker and they should be there if poker as an intriguing competitive sport is to be kept alive. Also I think the proponents for "everything fast" fell for a short term illusion in any case and having good quality structures will be better for both recreationals and professionals in the long run.

Bring the 1k Super Tuesday back with a 20min blind structure and run a 1k turbo with the same prize pool at the same time. You can even do both. And we will see which prize pools have to be adjusted higher which lower in the long run.

Your argument only holds for super high stake tournaments. If you are playing at a more appropriate bank roll level (which a lot of smaller stake players do, low/mid stake regs and also recs who dont like to fire their entire roll in one session), you should have a roll to late reg easily. So this problem happens a lot at all stakes except super high stakes.

And when there is no disincentive to late reg, in fact being mathematically superior to early regging unless you have some sort of big deep stake edge, you see more and more players regging with 10-15bb.

Bounty tournaments are better because then the late regs actually add another bounty into the pool and the late reggers have a disadvantage because their stack is too small to play for other bounties from the get go. But still I would rather just have shorter late reg times in all tourneys.

Edit: at above post.. poker "pros" dont deserve ANY decision from the operators to be geared towards them. Comparing yourself to the factory workers producing the cars we drive, absolute lol

How bout the bots, colllusion and insanely high rake?

This.

No idea what any of this has to do with zoom tournaments, they are faster, can have lower late reg and are fun for everyone, that was my point.

another ironic take posted on a poker forum created by professional poker players for professional poker players.

If you think faster and faster structures are good for anyone you are out of your mind. Nobody wants to watch a roullette battle. Poker tournaments specifically are appealing because of the mix of skill and luck factor, you take out the skill factor you completely lost the appeal. Nobody would watch poker on tv. And fewer and fewer will play it if you pass a certain threashold.

Also a big part of the appeal for poker is that a ton of players might not be good enogh where they are winning players yet, but it certainly is their goal to become a winning player. That alone is a huge portion and you lose that story to tell them too

Comical takes.

1) someone can be a pro and realize the game doesn't and shouldn't revolve around them.

It's not ironic at all.

Just bc someone makes money from poker doesn't mean they should think poker revolves around them. It's the exact opposite. Smart winners understand what recs like and cater to that.


Seriously some people on this forum need to take off their headphones at the table and get to know losing players and understand why they play

2)a big part of the appeal of tournaments is the big prize up top. When they almost always go to reg grinders you lose a lot of the appeal.



Poker rooms and casinos exist because of variance.

Most recs aren't trying to grind a tournament online for 16 hours straight.

I mean really any pro should play poker with the mindset of "I don't mean ****" to this site or poker room and go from there.

Maybe it had to do specifically with the part of your post I bolded, where you claimed max late reg firing was only something "super rich crushers" were doing

You are absolutely delusional if you think recs dislike turbo formats. Recs play to bink that one score. The absolute worst thing for rec play is to spend hours and hours and then busting without even getting into the money. Online of course. Live play ticks a lot of other boxes for recs, like the social aspect.

Hint. There are gambling machine tournaments.

As to railing online tournaments. What a joke. Worse than watching paint dry.

Fact is recs do not want to reduce variance. They are not stupid. They know on a skill basis they are dogs. It is the variance that gives them a chance at an endorphin high.

You know what else is bothering me about Party Poker

When I play a cash game and try and sit out just to take a small break
The damn site kicks me off the game in like 15 seconds. wtf
IWhy does it kick players off so fast.

online play really is a toilet now. it's a shame. I'm now giving almost all of my online action to local clubs. you can still chat, you can show your hand or even a card. you know most of the players in real life. just way better overall.

I bubbled myself reading this.

CMV: As a caller, you should be able to muck (or show) your hand when you lose showdown and the software's hand history viewer shouldn't show it to anyone else. Haven't played much live or home games lately, but that used to be the norm back in the day. I'm guessing some smaller sites still enable you to do that, but none of the large, global ones do AFAIK.

I'm just bummed that a tournament today can pause and then stop at least once a month sometimes a few times in a week. Most sites can only do NLH, PLO, sometimes O8 and even rarer Stud/Stud8.

It seems like software development 20 years ago was light years ahead of today. You had sites that could run with huge volume, they often offered all the games if not all of HORSE but also 8 Game. Also I miss the swag, you didn't have stupid chests that gave out silly rewards. You earned x amount of coins/points and could spend them on whatever. Dollars/Tickets/Swag. Pulling a chest only for a .25 or $1 Spin & Go and nothing more is insulting. I'll give up all of that for emojis that throw poop.

Sites don't care about people watching MTTs. They care about people paying to play in MTTs.

If the NBA's business model was "pay $1000 and you get to play in an NBA game" and every time some sucker ponied up, it was a bunch of guys dunking on them and breaking their ankles, you can be sure the NBA would introduce new rules to make it more equal.