Every. Single. One?

Multiple studies have shown when people are genuinely undecided that flipping a coin often improves emotional comfort afterwards. Therefore, I shall flip a coin right now. Heads she was drunk/high/dumb or tails she cheated.

(flips coin)

The coin spoke: she was on drugs and/or dumb.

I can live with this assessment and feel a weight lifted off my chest.

Since this is a religious issue now I guess I need to by some swag with her picture.

I still think the most likely scenario here is that there was no cheating. As limon mentioned, rec players make ridiculous looking plays all the time. Absent some sort of repeated pattern in play, this is always the most likely explanation for strange hands. I'll always remember the passage in Harrington on Hold-em where he says that when calculating equities against ranges, you should always account for like a 5% probability (I forget the exact number) that your opponent is just doing something dumb with a hand you'd never expect.

But by far the second most likely scenario, if you really don't believe that Robbi could have played this way with some additional information, is that Garrett accidentally flashed his cards on this hand only. Unlike sophisticated cheating schemes, which happen very rarely, people flashing their card also happens all the time. This also would (mostly) explain (1) Robbi's play on this hand; (2) why there don't seem to be any other hands where Robbi cheated; and perhaps most importantly (3) why Robbi ended up giving much of the money back.

With respect to (3), if Robbi played the hand straight up, she's not likely to want to give the money back, although I can see a scenario where she might have felt bullied into doing so.

If there was some cheating conspiracy, I think it's unlikely that Robbi would be willing to give the money back, because it would make her look guilty and she's also likely feel like she needed to consult with her co-conspirators before doing so.

But the scenario where you just saw your opponents cards is one where Robbi might actually feel guilty without any premeditated intent to cheat. I myself have given opponents bets back, or offered to check down in hands where I gained an advantage by seeing their cards. This isn't cheating, but it is somewhat of an unintentional angle shoot, and the sort of scenario where you genuinely feel bad for the other player.

yes, this is exactly what i said right after it happened. well put.

none of these guys have acually played there tho ivey never returned since that game which tells you something and when your job is to get into good games thats the politically correct answer

hes probably refering to iveys live interview after it happened because he was playing in the game. which he had no time to think of it. iveys not the kind of guy to talk about stuff like that publicly

That's great. I don't like Gman and have zero interest in defending his honor.

In a vacuum it's not unbelievable to me some fish would call off $100k stack with J high. It's all the circumstantial evidence surrounding this stream that makes me lean heavily toward cheating scheme. I'm guessing you haven't even engaged with most of that evidence based on your reaction to Elwood on the stream (something like "that's what makes you great... you actually watch that ****!" referring to clips from Gman's 2p2 post), but maybe I'm wrong. "I've seen it all gut vibes trust me bro" doesn't sway me here though.

i literally owned and ran a stream with people involved. i have done all of the security work and dealt with cheating teams, i have all the "not for public" chatter and peoples true feelings. I dont do "trust me bro", the conspiracy theorists do.

You don't count Garret reaction, which scared me after few years only seeing it in video. That spoiled hobby influencer woman wanabe player was scared is the last suspect thing. Garret is crank.

A gay man yelling at you can definitely be scary.

LOL. The ONLY HAND she beats on that board is 8 high. No one calls that. Unless you know the cards. Garret is back playing now and has a book out. Anyone seen Robbi?

I don’t know what any of this means but Robbi did not appear intimidated after the hand even though it was pretty obvious people at the table thought something fishy happened. And while we don’t know what happened off camera, she came back and indicated she offered him the money back and he took it, no indication he asked her for it back while off camera.

I did see and save a Polk video that she was up 250k on her prior HCL stream appearances, not including (I think) the 130k+ she paid to Garrett. https://youtu.be/xPQUarLEr9A?si=bK9R22egLpA8EyZT

Where is the proof that people in the control room had no access to the card reader info in real time and the precautions that they took with this info other than no phones, post Postle?

Well, perhaps she wasn't scared at first, but Garret has what I call a great self-pissing ability; more he thinks about the hand, more pissed off he gets, and more pissed off he gets, more he thinks about the hand. According to what Limon says in the video, she was confronted backstage by several people who told her: "Just return the money, and we will forget about your crime."

Although the deckmate is capable putting a deck in order the players at the table would have noticed.

As puting the deck in a specific order takes much longer and makes an entirely different sound than the normal shuffle.

Even if they somehow set the entire deck in this hand, there's no guarantee that Robbi wins it. If Eric just calls the straddle from the BB w/ J9, he most likely wins the hand.

What video is this?

Your premise is demonstrably false.

https://www.youtube.com/live/-1hgj5ck2Q8

I think that's pretty dope psychological analyze by somebody who has few tens of years as player, and manager of similar events. About that backstage happenings it starts I think here, who was involved etc.
https://www.youtube.com/live/-1hgj5c...HqnbsXR&t=2625

Both were pretty dismissive of Gman's post because it was borderline schizo. You still think Airball is involved? Oh, according to Garrett's friend Julie, one time Robbie bought in to a game verbally and then tried to just play with the chips she won, but then the floor man asked her to buy in full and she did. Holy crap, definitely evidence of a cheating team with hole card access on a stream. If that doesn't convince you, did you know that many of these people once ate dinner together?

As said, Ivey was interviewed on the spot. Galfond is mentioned in the wiki. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adelst...ew_controversy

Honestly, Galfond being good at poker strat doesn't make him especially knowledgeable or insightful on this though. It sounds like he considered it pretty carefully and he seems like a guy who is pretty careful about what he says. But it matters how much you know about secondary issues and how much time and thought you've put into this one.

Like if Tom Brady saw one crazy play in a college football game and had to judge if there was point shaving, I wouldn't think he is right just because he is Tom Brady. Does he know anything about point shaving? Did he research the context of the play? etc.

The main point was that conspiracy theorists keep hallucinating that "all the pros" or "anyone with poker experience" knows she was cheating, and that's demonstrably false. If anything, the opposite is true.

Limon's point about the mentality of someone playing for fame (which he has seen many times running streams) was pretty good I thought. He also debunked another hallucination that "innocent people don't give the money back," by discussing how people make false confessions to the police every day. And those people don't just lose some cash, they are going to prison for years and destroying their lives just because they can't handle being put under pressure by authorities. (Meanwhile, zero examples of cheaters returning money when asked firmly). He pointed out that many times on LATB, people played hands so badly that they legit thought their card readers were malfunctioning and had to confirm with the players that the readings were accurate. He discussed possible ways of cheating a stream, and why they didn't make sense here.

I thought it was also interesting how Elwood discussed how his brain almost snapped when playing on streams due to all the extra leveling and exposure. Elwood seemed a little reluctant to agree that team cheat are 100% total idiots, but he would question the general judgement or certain cognitive abilities of anyone who was hard team cheat, as the evidence is so one sided. He also does a lot of stuff about cognitive biases, conspiracy theories, fanatical beliefs, etc. So both of these guys know a lot about the surrounding issues.

They agreed there is a contradiction between the level of planning and savvy needed to execute this without getting caught and the notion that they are the most incompetent cheaters of all time, putting in money when crushed to set up a flip that would expose them to scrutiny.

While it is possible to be a genius at a game and dysfunctional or irrational in other areas, I'd be pretty shocked if anyone like Limon, Bart, Elwood, Esko or Galfond for that matter really dug in and considered all the possibilities, looked at the possible cheating mechanisms, all the hand histories and the results for the various players and thought cheating was likely.

For all the attention and effort put into this, there has never really been such a person who has made a video or written an article weighing all of the evidence and providing a plausible, point by point account of how cheating occurred. The closest was Polk, who obviously now realizes he was wrong (if he ever really believed).

The name pros who did allege guilt were mostly just shooting from the hip and not nec. the most well rounded, stable people. Like Charlie Carrell thought Nick and Eric were in on it and using baseball style hand signals, jutting out one or 2 fingers. But, I've never seen one try to carefully explain how a cheating team with hole card access wasn't beating the game, why she'd call getting crushed OTF, etc. etc. The hard core team cheat people seem to be exclusively internet posters endlessly creating new theories as their old ones fall apart.

I don’t know. The clown with the long hair was claiming she was intimidated by Eric Persson, who is a bully,. Problem is Persson never left the table and go into the hallway. The guy is just making **** up.

I dont know about this but the literal 140 IQ genius, lifetime mensa member and multi millionaire gambling legend who actually owned a stream said robbi was pulled off the table and intimidated by feldman and garret and possibly vertucci (accounts differ). Never heard of this "eric" person.

If you just take any one fact in isolation the accusation is schizo. But I thought the constellation of evidence strongly suggested shadiness.

Was just asking for links to Ivey/Galfond to see why they thought cheating unlikely. Agree you can't determine what happened here by polling experts.

Yeah it's not dispositive either way. Some innocent people make false confessions, some thieves pay back stolen funds under suspicion / consciousness of guilt. In the context of her actions, body language, changing stories etc I lean latter. Could be wrong.

I think both sides agree none of the accused parties were particularly savvy or competent. If there was cheating, I assume it was Bryan crudely signaling "ahead/behind". Robbi being a terrible poker player cuts both ways... it could explain an epically innocent donkoff, or terrible execution of cheating scheme.

This feels like "absence of evidence = evidence of absence"... without a 100% demonstrable smoking gun fully explaining exactly what happened step by step, nothing sus happened

Haven't followed this too closely in the years since. Were there a lot of allegations in Gman's post that "fell apart" on closer scrutiny?

I remember like thirty, forty years back, it was impossible to accuse people of cheating without a trace of evidence (if I don't count 'circumstantial evidence', which is pure fantasy in this case). So you have here a video of the whole event, from multiple angles. We all know all the people participating. Yet after years of detective work, dragging people through the mud, mad theories, you still have not a speck of evidence or one single testimony. I think the whole case is a result of some special people having access to the internet. If I look for example at some Zodiac forums, this is the same sort of people: some believe it was Allen, and they are sure! Yet another part of the forum believes it was Earl Best, and they are sure... Some guys make a living writing books about the case, there is one major movie and a few docuseries; and yet nobody's closer to finding Zodiac... There is nothing wrong with people having hobbies, but they shouldn't ruin people's lives in the process.

You are right, you claimed Vertucci was in the hallway, not Persson. But you are the only person that claims he was there and bullied her. What is your point of discussing vertucci as a bully when he wasn’t present? Can you identify a single false murder confession that occurred after 20 minutes of being interrogated?

(Feldman and RIP may have been present per the reports).


Again, get me over the hurdle of the live card info was secure and I can jump into the no cheating camp.

From the investigation report:


Bulletproof identified some critical risks with the room setup and broadcast operations:

The live cards could be seen by anyone in the production room just by turning their head. This was tested and observed during a show from the production room. However, the live hole and community cards could not be seen from the commentator room, even if the curtain was open, without the help of a visual aid such as binoculars. The GFX Station could not be seen from the announcer room due to the server rack blocking the angle.
The announcer was observed leaving the production area to use the facilities during live play; as a result, he could have seen the live cards on the live production screens.
Since that time, HSPP, in consultation with Bulletproof, reconfigured the production room and made other modifications to significantly improve security and reduce the opportunity for anyone other than the show’s owner/director to view cards in real time. All workstations were turned around so that the computer screens cannot be viewed from the rest of the room. Only one monitor now displays the hole cards and it can only be viewed by the director. A door was installed, which is closed and locked throughout the stream, preventing anyone from entering the room. Even if anyone entered the room (which is prohibited), they would only see the back of the monitor used by the director – they would not be able to view hole cards. Other protocols implemented will be discussed later in this report.
…
SUMMARY OF SECURITY IMPROVEMENTS

HSPP has implemented the following improvements, among others, to increase the security of the “Hustler Casino Live” stream:

HSPP reconfigured the production room so that only one monitor can display hole cards, and it can only be viewed by the director.
A wall and door were installed to the production room; the door is kept closed and locked throughout the stream. Only HSPP has the key to the room.
Production room employees must surrender mobile telephones and other electronic devices, which are kept in signal-blocking Faraday bags, before entering the production room.
Pre-employment background checks will be performed on all prospective employees.
All players must surrender their telephones, smart watches and other electronic devices before playing in the game. Other personal items are stored in signal-blocking Faraday bags and kept away from the table.
Players are required to sign waivers agreeing that they have no financial investment in any other players in the game.
Security personnel use a metal-detecting wand to screen players each time they enter the stage area. Players who leave the stage for any reason are re-screened before re-entering the stage.
Remote camera operator is no longer on open-production channel; the only way director can communicate with that person is to press a button to communicate directly with them.
Security video camera systems record all employees in production room from multiple angles. Security cameras will not view hole cards on director’s monitor.

yep. coulda ended the manifesto right there.