Yes, assuming someone makes the same amount playing online as live, the consensus is that online is the way to go. But that's a pretty big assumption. Most live pros are live pros because they make more playing live, and some of them probably can't beat the online game for anywhere near the same amount, or at all.

I play fulltime at the Tampa Hard Rock, and I always wonder if other casinos are so different then mine. The people I play with are an interesting mix of old, young, rich, struggling, highly educated and less so, business owners and employees.

But all but a very few are nice, friendly, and interesting. I don't get all the references to dirty, smelly, nasty degenerates. My experience is very different than that. This is at the 2/5 level. I enjoy going to the casino and playing, and interacting with a diverse group of people.

Do other live casinos really have such different clientele, or is it perhaps just people comparing the normal give and take of interpersonal dealings to the solitary experience of playing online alone in your home?

I actually look forward to going to the casino and talking to all the folks there. None are dirty, smelly, etc. They're all genuinely nice people. This is in the midwest, though. Vegas and LA may be different....

Yeah. Someone told me this as well. Online games are much harder than live and i definitely agree. Someone told me that there are ppl who play for a living live... and there is no way that same person could do so online which makes a lot of sense. For example, a guy can beat 2/5NL for a living but if he had to multitable 100NL, there is a very good chance he cannot beat it.

But if someone plans that they make about the same in each game... you would agree online is probably better right? For example, if a guy plays 2/5NL and clears 1500 hours a year at $30 per hour vs an online player that multitables 100NL with rakeback and plays lesser hours has a lower winrate obviously as its online, most ppl would do online correct? It seems like very few ppl like the casino. The only ppl who i see that would choose live are those that are social ppl and hate staying behind a comptuer screen.

live is so slow and i really hope i can play online again soon

you do meet some interesting people live, especially in higher stakes game
by and large super rich whales with money to burn are extremely friendly interesting people

Playing at the commerce on the other hand will make you want to put your head thru a wall
its hard to find games better than the games in LA but I know I could never play there full time
Those people really are the scum of the earth and I just feel so dirty every time I play there

I also think psychologically live is a lot tougher
Unless you happen to live near great action you will be away from home a lot
Additionally while games are much softer bad runs last longer time wise and will **** with your head a lot more
You're lucky if you can get 5000 hands in a month live and we all know what a small sample that is

Online was def the best way to go. Everything about it (except for your opponents) was easier. I was in a nice funk for like 5 months once Stars pulled out. However, I didn't realize just how introverted I became until I was forced to play full-time live, so that was a positive.

It's also nice to play high-stakes games and see plays you wouldn't ever see from most anyone at a tenth of the stakes online. But... 30 hands an hour tops. If I could multi-table the live games at those stakes online, it would almost feel like the early 2000's again. That part is kind of depressing.

Well, speaking from direct experience what you have posted in completely inacurrate.

Pension benefits, health care benefits, ADD, DD, and all other forms of coverage don't equate into more cash in an employees pocket. The employer sets up the plan, and yes there are a few that offer the cash option, but they are few and far between.

Your example is not how benefits work, period.

do the same scumbags play the higher stakes too? or do the just stay at the 1/2 and 2/5 tables?

I've been a full time online pro since 2003, and until black friday made a 6 figure salary every year except one (where I made 7 sick brag bro... sorry but it's NVG). I came from a very humble family where my dad was middle management at a furniture factory and my mother stayed home. Our total family income was never above 45k/yr. I ended up leaving college early because my 'out of state' tuition jumped substantially causing me to move so it would become ‘in state’ 6 months later. I never went back after finding a fairly decent IT position making 35k to start. When I found online poker I quit after a few months and have never regretted the decision.

Now I’m 34 with a wife, 3 kids, 2 homes (PA, Vegas), etc... living the american dream I guess. I'm playing live full time mostly 40/80 and 80/160LHE in Vegas, and I'm actually really liking the change of pace. I'm getting out of the house and socializing with more people than my wife and skype buddies. The experience has been fairly positive with the only thing being that I don't live in Vegas so am commuting back and forth every few weeks.

All that being said, I feel a big reason I don't hate live poker as a career right now is because I don't rely on the income to pay this months bills. I have all the things in place from my online winnings like IRAs, 528 College Funds, Savings, Non Retirement investments, Home Equity, etc. I do play to pay my bills of course, but at this point its more to maintain my current net worth vs build it. That of course keeps stress way down and allows me to enjoy the day to day grind.

After reading this thread and some of the comments, it's sorta clear to me that a lot of you who are young really don't see the problems with playing lower stakes for a living long term. $2000/mo is fine when you're single and renting a one bdrm apt, but 10 years from now you might be married with 3+ dependents, a big mortgage, and a ton of every day expenses that you don't have today. I think my monthly nut is right around $7,500/mo, and my mortgage is almost half that number alone. What you have to also remember is that the money you make playing poker now, even if current profitable game conditions exist forever, is that due to inflation you'll have to play continuously higher to make essentially the same money as time goes on. That $40k/yr you make now will be a McDs salary in 10 years, and your $800/mo apt will be $1200/mo even if you never upgrade your current living conditions. In poker you don’t get that 3% “cost of living” annual raise that nearly all working people get, so if you’re not making excess now you’ll really be pinched later by the fact that your job does not scale.

I would say unless you’re making at least 60k/yr in 2012 that you should at least keep another career in mind for down the road. Personally I don’t see games getting any easier as time goes by and poker loses popularity post boom.

5.5 years (and 4.5 million hands) into the online game, not even the slightest shred of regret or doubt, ever.

My only regret is I didn't find online poker earlier. I plan to start doing a lot of poker travelling, as I do enjoy live poker and travelling and it's nice to make money on the way so vacations aren't always a bankroll leak.

If that much inflation occurs, wouldn't the casino's stop spreading 1/2? Even rec. players would want to play higher if inflation makes 1/2 games too small.

Yea, poker auto-scales with inflation. If a a dollar now became 100, a 1-2 grinder would be playing 100-200. That's the least concern of poker pros imo.

i grinded online for 5 years, never had to work, and enjoy live poker possibly more than i did when i was grinding away in my room on 2 monitors.

it all depends on your situation.

to be honest i couldn't imagine having to play just to pay rent with live poker money (lower stakes). that would really suck the life out of me and i would advise to find other pedestals of income before doing that unless you are sure you can climb stakes in a few months.

Quick question, why are so many people talking about a future loss of popularity of the game? Obviously Poker took a big hit with BF and all, so there has been a readjustment, but I'd be interested in getting the point of view of experienced and/or older pros on why the game would continue to loose popularity.
With poker legalization on the horizon (?), and the fact that poker is at the end of the day an "american pastime" as well as now well established in the rest of the world, why the dark outlook?

Re inflation, question for Vegas old timers: what was the lowest limit spread say 10 years ago in nlhe? 1/2? 0.5/1?

I assume it's always been 1/2 because nobody wants to deal with cents, but with inflation at some point it'll make sense to ditch 1/2, just like Canada recently stopped making pennies.

Many places are switching to 1/3.

That's not the point of my post. I recognize there isn't a choice to forego your benefits, but to an employer, $1 of cash spent on health care is the same as $1 spent on salary. The real cost of employing someone is cash pay + benefits. Apologies if I wrote it in a way that was misleading.

Years as an HR consultant. But thanks.

I recognize what I wrote might not have aligned with the intended message based on Scoot's commentary.

My point is, to a company, there's no cost difference between the following scenarios:

1. I pay you $100,000 of cash and no benefits

2. I pay you $50,000 of cash and $50,000 of benefits.

Obviously, this ignores the other issues, such as employee attraction, retention, taxes, administrative burden, etc.

For the casino it's more about the rake and less about the limits.

A sizable percentage of rec players will still play at the lowest limit game available to them.

You people in the USA are very lucky. You can play online and build skill and then play in those good and non-rigged live games.

Personally, I am from the online poker boom and things got very difficult later and I had to learn a new poker form (actually, more or less all of them) and take a part time job paying some €10 per hour (and I have a sleeping problem and more or less often I am up to very tired when working). In the USA, I would be much better, though some Las Vegas is hell hot during the summer, until they have good coolers there.

Giving both my legs to play professionally in the USA? A tough decision.

I think we may have been trying to get at similar end results, just in different directions. Many times message board back and forth can get lost in the translation.

The company I work for is a private, family owned corporation that wants to be sure their career employees can retire with something.. Thus the pension plan, which by the way has been discontinued for new employees, and a profit sharing plan for all employees that is geared soley for retirement.

My point of the early question was to try and get some of the younger "professional" poker players to take a look at their lives, and think about 30 years from now. You aren't "always" going to be profitable, and you aren't always going to want to play poker.

Might not seem like it today, but for most things change as you go through life. I didn't see it 25 years ago, but am thankful today I work for a company that does.

not really sure other than to say i am happy

doesn't feel like a grind to me but i am not grinding 60hr/wk at 1/2

i would estimate about: 20 hours live poker, 10 hours online poker, 3 hours coaching poker every week. i spend more time than that as i am always studying something poker related

the more i think about it i may be over estimating my playing time as it isn't uncommon for me to take week or more off from one of the above

the only real grind is the travel to/from casino

UIEGA

i agree mostly decent people from all walks of life hanging out playing poker - if you are a social person it doesn't seem too hard to get at least get a long and dare i say it enjoy the company of my fellow human beings

As I said earlier...I love interacting with everyone at my tables. I think it's the best thing Live poker has going for it. Well, that and the soft games. I do see a lot of younger guys in hoodies and headphones who look like they hate life....I guess those are the negative folks in this thread. They're really missing out, though. Oh well.