Anyone know what #5 is on this list?

Sorry if it's obvious and I missed it.

1. Confused by post in bbv
2. Ask bbvtardsto explain
3.?????
4. Profit

With my calcs you have a 1.8%~ chance at a losing live month at 1/2 poker. Win rate is too big. Win rate is what lowers variance the most not hands played. This increases to 5-7% at 2/5 but it can require much more skill to win at 2/5.

Everyone forgets how good it is to win at 30bb/100+ because it's been so long since possible online. Compare the variance between 30bb/100 and 5bb/100 and its absolutely sickening.

Game select. Don't play bad games. It doesn't take long to spot the people you want in your game.

Your roll really lives on your lifestyle. If poker is your skill and you don't have another way to make $20+/hr grind it out with $1500-2000, its really hard to lose. You can also tighten up your game to create less variance (unless you excel in soul reading random 1/2 fish). So many people want luxuries in life but if you have to it should be no problem living off $1k/mo nearly anywhere in the world. There's always tricks for spending less money! Spending less is winning more when you are grinding such micros anyways! The difference in $2200 profit and $1200 profit is nice.

One great way to lower monthly expenses is to eat less food. The average American for example eats too much and the recommended 2000-2400 calories daily is too much as well.

This post has bred some of the first-worldiest comments I have ever come across. People are saying "$20/hr is such a hard living. There's no way you could support a family or save for retirement...blah blah blah." Yeah, try working a wage given in China while supporting a family.

Im 34 and have been a working stiff for 17 years. Got a job so I had money to blow than end up having a baby. Ive worked for a cardroom the last 9yrs. and love love love my job. Even when some guy wants to **** on it the gaming industry is a blast, but over the last year ive wanted nothing more than to be playing instead of working. I actually have around 250 hrs logged in 1/3 (-800) and around 20-40 hrs logged in 2/3 nl (+5000) over the last 2 years all while working 45s per week and living the family life.

Obv those numbers are to be scoffed at and im no where near go pro status but I want it. I'm done busting my ass for someone else to make the big $. I want to take a week off from "work " every month for family or to spring clean or vacation or wtf.

It may never happen for me and I do love my job but its always that little more that we all want or in some cases less. And it doesn't matter wether its monwy or time its just 'man, I wish I made X per mo." Or I wish only worked for xx amount of hours instead of y".

Does that make us greedy as people? Or does that make us motivated? Idk which it is for me. I feel like its all of the above. I know im on a bit of a tangent here, but its funny how what we want is never enough. Especially as we get older.

+1

Yes, you can live pretty cheaply in a lot of countries. But for those of you who live in places like NYC or Los Angeles, you probably have no idea how cheaply people can live in mcuh of the United Sates. I've seen people on 2+2 say things like "If you can't make at least 50K playing poker, you need to find another job."

Where I live in Michigan, a lot of families raise children on less than that. When raised our three children in the 1980s on a household income quivalent to about 40K a year now.

We moved to a smaller house to save money, but the boys didn't mind--they that it was cool that we were only a block away from Freddy Kruger's grave.*

We couldn't afford a real vacation, but we were pretty good at improvising. We would take one Saturday a month to visit another city, where the boys and I would run a 5K or 10K in in the morning. We visited museums. We ate at the world's largest breakfast table and met Tony the Tiger in Battle Creek. We ran the Maple Syrup Run, had pancakes with local maple syrup, and learned how it was made. We even ran a 5K with a wind chill of -35, and the boys though that it was a great adventure (take that, those of you whining about the recent weather!)

Our meals weren't fancy, but we did it without getting food stamps or any other government benefits. All of our children went to college and later joined the army, and we have three teriffic grandchildren. We have not made a car payment in ten years--we pay cash for used cars.

I haven't been playing full-time for very long (it became our best option due to a long list of circumstances) and I'm not making 50K, or anything close to it. Next year I expect to make about 25K and more the year after that, but since it's tournament poker, you never know. If I hit 50K (which is more than the average personal income in the US, and more than I've made doing anything else) my wife would be ecstatic. That would give us a household income of 100K. Where I live, that would be considered rich. We could easily pay cash for a home much nicer than the one we have now.

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*I thought they were making it up until they walked me to the cemetery, and sure enough, there he was. World War 2 veteran Frederick J. Kruger.

Loved reading this. Well done sir.

Me too. Very grounded . Not everyone is a Gucci man bag carrying , Swiss watch wearing, EPT playing poker pro or aspires to be one.

Off to have some pancakes!

+1

Poker sucks full time and was never meant to be a full time career for most people. The smart ones build a career outside poker and then use poker for side income.

Aren't the taxes insane if you're not pro?

Not saying that you are wrong, but I think most people who are good enough to make at least 60-70k in 2015 from poker are fairly intelligent. There will always be a very small percentage who aren't, but they a small minority that proves the rule.

I have been in corporate America for 21 years. I do fine. I am able to support my family. My wife was able to stay home with the kids for 8 years. She is back at work now. I have played the game at work. Put in the hours and appearances. I have seen benefits shrink over time.

I have always worked in Accounting. One thing I realized is that 15-20 years ago we needed more staff to do the same job. Computers have killed some jobs in offices today. We all know about automation and how it kills manufacturing jobs, but it does the same in offices and has been for years.

How does it relate to being a Professional Poker player. Well, after many years I have come to the realization that stuff can only make you so happy. When I was in HS I dreamed of driving a BMW. See I grew up lower middle class. So while we always had food we didn't get everything we wanted growing up.

Nowadays I could care less about stuff. A bigger TV isn't going to make me happy. A cool car isn't going to make me happy. I have changed my perspective as I have aged. It happens.

So how does this relate to poker. Well, playing poker professionally is a major life decision so you need to attack the question from all angles. How much money do I need now? How much will I need in the future? Do I like poker? Do I like working in an office? You have to ask yourself every possible question. Then you have to come up with a plan. Then you have to come up with many back up plans.

The problem is we are all different and our situations are all different. There is no one right answer.

A buddy of mine analyze poker hands together to improve our play. We have decided that in poker many times the answer to the question is "It depends". As much as we want black and white answers many times in poker it is shades of gray. The same goes for life.

Just be honest with yourself. Come up with a plan and then go work the plan. Then at different times change the plan. But you have to figure out what works best for you. Once you do then you will be fine.

I doubt it. It seems like a grind with little upside and huge downside. Unless of course you game select (bum hunt) 100% of the time and aren't shy about taking money from people who don't even know the rules of the game.

We have to remember that there is a difference between a job and a career. If we compare poker to the alternative of being a bartender then that makes sense. But comparing poker to a corporate position or whatever someone considers a career is different. IMO a career is something you can depend on for a long period of time and have a family and mortgage and money in the bank while having credit and income and benefits/retirement.

The issue is that in America a career is no longer what I described above. Everything is turning into a short term job with no guarantees future.

Ive been a pro poker player for almost 15 years both online and live, but id say to start professionally in this poker economy you have to be fkn nuts.

Again, it depends. Venessa Rousso is a genius who finished high school early, got an economics degree from Duke in 2.5 years, and was one of the top students in her law school. She was on the fast track to a big corporate job.

While in law school she was also playing poker at night, and one day she realized that she could make money playing poker than she ever would as a lawyer. She compared the alternatives, and over $3 million in cashes says that she made the right choice. She loves what she does--when she talks about game theory she gushes like a 14 year old boy talking about a hot cheerleader.

It is possible to weigh the variables and decide that poker is the right choice.

10 years + for me and im pretty sure i hate my job way less than a very high percentage of people working in this world. those monday blues i'm always hearing about, i've never had em. when i had a daughter two years ago and we needed a babysitter, we didnt have to look far, dad gets to watch her, the person that should be watching her(or mom). grateful errday.



big world out there, lots of cool jobs im sure, lots of ****ty ones to. the more important question imo is what one is doing outside of his profession, thats where the majority of happiness is lost or found. lets focus on the positives bros

im an online pro, i think live would be extremely worse, personally.

IMO this question is more about a specific person that is able to adapt to playing poker for a living. The reality that you can have a major down swing, which is extremely stressful and takes a special individual to be able to deal with that long term. Professional poker is for a small percentage of the population even if you have the intellect, you probably don't have the right personality. When I say "personality", I mean the ability to sit in a casino for 30-40 hours a week conversing with mostly unhappy degenerates.

One of the most important things to me is who you surround yourself with. If you don't have a good balance(non-poker activities, family, friends etc.) in life, I think professional poker will eat you up and spit you out.

I have found that that kind of availability can be both a blessing and a curse. I'm not playing full-time now because of my family caregiver responsibility, but when I was, I once got a call asking me to take my granddaughter to the ER because "everyone else was working." The truth was that:

1. I was working too.

2. Other family members at that time were closer and could have got her to the ER 10 minutes sooner than I did.

It happens that I was home studying but if I had been in hour three of a four-hour tournament with a big stack, that would have been really awkward. I decided then that either online or live, when I was working my phone would be off. My wife has the number of the poker room if there is an emergency.

I already had my phone off when I play live to make concentration easier (I have ADD) but when I get back to playing to full-time, I'll have to think about thinks.

I can't have regular hours so my family knows what's going on. I want the flexibility to work six hours one day and 12 the next. I could be working any time. if I can't get to sleep after I get home from a tournament ending at midnight, I might be watching a coaching video at 0200.

I guess the only answer is to turn the phone off when I need to concentrate, and again, with ADD this is a very big deal. If I'm working at home and my wife is watching TV, or doing anything else that makes noise, I will sit in my office wearing earplugs and with the door closed.

I think in general there's a couple ways to go about work - do something you absolutely love, do something that can make a big positive change in the world, or do something where you can make a lot of money.......if you can't do one of those three then quit what you're doing and try again - of course this is very basic and simplistic but I feel these three are the way to live life......we're only here for so long so why not take risks, be extreme, do what others said is impossible, etc - I think for most poker doesn't fit into any of these categories but I think its definitely on the right path.

I think tons of people are overvaluing the "freedom" they have these days playing poker.

A pros hourly is probably only worth 65% (some would say it's lower) compared to a working stiff with the exact same hourly, factoring in self employment taxes, health, dental, retirement etc, and also opportunity cost.

A pro would have to average a ton of money per year in order to choose poker over a different career. Nobody is averaging 200k/yr playing 5/10nl. I think very few guys are even averaging 100k/yr

financially, I'd say someone with even a well chosen associates degree (~50k starting + benefits etc) is doing a lot better vs a ton of grinders out there.

But money isn't everything. Some people are really happy playing poker for a living... Until it comes to a jolting halt, they have no back up, and they may or may not end up scamming someone.

Well a working stiffs hourly still gets taxed. The only difference is in poker you pick up your portion of all the taxes. So it's probably a 6-9% less difference.

as a pro it does suck when it comes to health insurance. Paying quite a bit and the insurance is still crap. The whole system is **** though imo, it should def be more in depth, like my insurance provider really has no clue what kind of health me or my family is in, whatevs.

confirming though that it is one downside to playing professionally.

On the upside and not saying i condone it, but when ur self employed its a bit easier to cheat the taxes

Just report that you only make $17,999.00 a year.

Obamacare is your friend.

My friend (30 yr old white male) has Blue Cross Blue Shield best coverage. (Health, Dental, Vision)

Took him ten minutes to sign up for it all through the healthcare marketplace site.

I think Obamacare pays $200-$250 of the bill and he pays around $60 a month. (Seems Obama gives you a certain $$$ amount up to just covering it all depending on what you make. So, if you're broke he gives you the most, if you declare something like $25,000 he may only give you a $100 a month towards the insurance you pick.)

Only declare you make good money for two years leading up to when you are going to buy a house or car.

I don't know if you having a family fukks everything all up, though.

If you are making under 35k a year and at least don't try to get healthcare through the affordable healthcare act you are an uninformed idiot.