Playing live for a living is very hard and I from what it seems, 2/5NL is pretty much the minimum stake one has to play. As the live pros that actually do this for a living are playing 2/5, 5/10 and 10/20NL. Of course you get those high stakes players who play the big mixed games etc but there just aren't many of those players. And obviously they wouldn't be a good example because they play for tons and tons of money... such as those like in Bobbys Room.


From what i spoken to people here who either played live for a living for a long period of time or from others who know pros who been doing the live grind for a living for at least 5 years, it seems like many live pros say its very draining lifestyle. I hear how people say poker is very lonely professional and i definitely understand what they mean by this. But from the information i seem to be getting, many live pros mention how they could have done something else instead of playing for a living. Someone i spoke to mention how many pros they know... well they all say they wished they had a regular job and make lesser money than playing poker.


I'm curious but are there many live poker pros who are very happy in their lives and didn't regret it as oppose to having a job? Most people who have a job hate their job and many always wished they done something else but didn't do it and decide well stick to the job as even though they hated it, they did it anyway. I see how there are threads about guys who quit their jobs because they hated corporate life... or those who are older in their 30s and 40s and saw screw it i'm coming to vegas and taking a shot even though most shottakers are usually in their 20s.


Well it seems like most live pros that do it for many years... i really don't see many that said they love the live pro lifestyle. I mean sure you could see a young 20 something do it for 1 year and love it and crush. But after a while it seems like live poker takes a toll on people and they never like the game that much anymore. Does anyone agree/disagree with this? The only live pro that i see that seem to love his lifestyle is JRB. Then again, wouldn't that be a bad example since he plays high stakes? He always has piictures on twitter of him partying in vegas and he's in his 40s if im not mistaken.


It seems like those players who grind online poker for a living, those are the ones that seem to make much more money than their live counterparts thanks to multitabling, rakeback, no traveling time, no commute, and all the frustrations of playing live... even though we all know live is so much softer than online. But I rarely hear that many online pokers who play many years as their job and then mention to others how they hate it, as oppose to their live counterparts who play live for a living.


I read many blogs of live pros and many seem to get really frustrated with their downswings when they lose, which is understandable. But many times i read how they mention how they hate poker and wished they never played this stupid game for a living. When i played live, i felt like i turned into a miserable person and also bitter when i lose. Does anyone felt a bit like this? Whats funny was when i had downswings playing online, it bothered me but didn't bother me that much. I read that that is what live poker does to you. When i used to play online, i was making decent money similar to what my friend make at their job and they hated their job. After black friday, I felt like poker has sort of put a bitter taste in my mouth. Like i'm kind of bitter at the ppl i know and how they have jobs and now i dont. Of course when i was making money online, i felt like damn this feels nice playing and making money online at home. Its like what they say about poker is true, it does turn some ppl for the worst when i lost the opportunity to play online.


Do you guys agree that those who play poker professionally, that online is the way to go and live just is just way too stressful? Its like the 2/5 grinder who averages $35/hr and puts in 1600 hours a year puts in so much work. Then you compare him with the online guy who multitable 12 tables of 200NL and he makes much more than the live pro and does it in the convenience of his own home.


Thoughts on this? Sorry if i typed way too much.

they both can be very profitable.
online will have larger swings bc of the # of hands.
i think they're quite different games, online and live.
i can play 12 hours straight in live and enjoy it, where 1 hour online can be miserable while multi tabling.
2/5 is the very minimum to go "pro" and not be miserable and depressed.
moral of story, pros and cons for both.

if u dont love and have passion the game and everything that comes with it, don't play professionally.

and one important thing, i haven't met one big winner in poker who doesn't love his job.

The most important thing to me in my life is total freedom. I want to be able to do what I want when I want to (within some reason of course). I also find self sustaining income more motivating than a paycheck. Finally I want my source of income to be fun and something I love. Poker fits all these requirements for me.

I had jobs from when I was 16 until I was 30 (31 now) . I personally consider being an employee voluntary slavery. I am choosing to be at the mercy of my boss and his bosses for no guarantee that I wont get laid off for any reason, whether my fault or not. It also is not fun and not motivating to be an employee. Employment also causes me stress due to lack of sleep, as my body always struggles to maintain a fixed sleep wake schedule, causing me to not be able to fall asleep at night until late, and an insane struggle to wake up in the morning because of that. Being forced to do assigned tasks 8 or more hours a day for something I dont love that is on a fixed time schedule is not the life I want.

Poker cash games are much more flexible. I can come and go as I please with no criticism. If I want to take a day or week off, no problem. If I want to take a break or not take a break, I can do it anytime. I am more of a night person so being able to wake up late and just go to work without time stress is nice. Also poker requires self motivation and self education. If you dont put in hours, you will not get paid. If you dont work hard to better yourself at poker, you will not succeed. That self motivation drives me more than a go nowhere job with limited potential income possibilities.

Finally, I love poker. Its a fun and enjoyable way to make a living. If a charity tournament was held where I could only play for fun, no cash prize, but all monies were donated to chairity, I would do it because I love poker and enjoy playing.

You cant say that about a paycheck to paycheck job. In my opinion there is no job where you get a regular paycheck that you make enough money to be able to say you genuinely love it. To me loving your work is saying I enjoy my work so much that even though I get paid 5 days a week to do this job, i would do the exact same work for free on the 6th day. Except for maybe some teachers, you wont find anyone who loves their paycheck to paycheck job enough to volunteer to do the exact same work for free on a day off. I would play poker on downtime for no money or playchips just because I love it.

It's pretty much the best job in the world. Like sfetaz said, the freedom is unrivaled. Want the day off? No problem. More hours? That's not a problem either. You can wear a suit if you want to... or pajama pants. Your choice. What other job can you drink at? You never have to turn things down because of work... the life value of having a flexible schedule is unreal. I get a massage "at work" everyday... what other job comes with that? And it's fun. You're playing a game. You meet all kinds of people from all walks of life. Pretty awesome if you ask me. But I'm a pretty easy going person and I can definitely see it not being all that awesome for other personalities. Have to decide for yourself if it's something you personally would enjoy.

You're underestimating the difference in how poker feels when you're on a downswing/busto vs getting by vs making a comfortable living vs balling out of control. When you're riding high poker is the greatest thing you've ever done, and when you're busto as hell and just found out that your FT money isn't coming for a long time, it's the worst decision you've ever made in your life.

Since the relative income level between poker players varies tremendously, the answer is going to be just as varied, but it doesn't speak as much to the absolute value of "playing poker professionally".

Ty for this post. Well said.

ppl who cry about how draining poker is to do for a living then imo they never worked anywhere b4

working for ppl= the most tilting experience ever!!!

poker is generally attractive for introverts n thus it fits our personality

p.s last job i had(4years ago) they let me go cause they said i did not like people(tourism industry)

I'm kind of wondering this myself.

Right now I have to commute pretty far to get to the closest game and I've been playing for a year now, probably 20 hours per week on average. I've played something like 1000-1200 hours. And for most of that , I wasn't even a winning player.

Only in the past four months have I really been winning consistently at any stake. I've had some ROUGH times so far.

Besides having to deal with degens, and commuting for 3 hours back and forth, it's pretty fun crushing it at 2/5 right now.

Not sure if I can see myself playing for the next 30 years or anything though. Kinda worried about this myself.

Good thread, thanks for posting (esp. stefaz guy). Some good points to think about.

Here's my experience: I played professionally since late '07. Online until black friday, live since then.

It sucks to get that 'well this is it' feeling. IME that happens when you get complacent; you're happy with the money you're currently making and stakes you're playing. It feels like an endless cycle. Make money so you can come back tomorrow and do it again.

I think the key in any career is to be going somewhere. In poker that means moving up. Testing yourself at new limits is fun. Building a roll for the next limit is satisfying. Aspire to build your roll properly, develop your skills and it will be enjoyable again. (To be clear I'm not suggesting irresponsible bankroll management, especially if poker really is your job. A full-time professional should be able to double his stakes about once/year.)

I've noticed a similar trend in my non-poker playing friends. The ones at smaller start-up companies that have a chance to go big like their work. The ones in giant corporations not so much.

Apology accepted

I agree with this line of thought ^^^

It's pretty tough to find games that run regularly above 10/20NL though.....right? Correct me if I'm wrong

This thread actually made me finally register to be a member (longtime lurker). I thought I was the only one that felt like this I've been a poker pro for the last 5 years. I'm 24 now. The truth is I've always felt that even though I've won lots of money in those five years it wasn't worth it. I'm the most broke I ever been in my life because of huge unexpected things happening and I haven't felt happier. When I was "ballin" a couple years ago I never felt more unhappy. I felt numb. When I would win the happiest and the rush became less and less each time eventually making me not care. When I would lose I'd become less and less sad. I feel like to be successful at this game one cannot care or put value to money especially when playing live.

Back a couple years ago when I bought whatever the hell I wanted all my friends use to be jealous. I thought having lots of money and "cool" **** would make r happy. Eventually winning and losing so much got to me so I just stopped caring about money. I felt like if I messed anything up I could just buy my way out of it. This affected my relationships between friends, parents, and girlfriends. Here's the funny thing in life I felt like I went all in and lost but I didn't lose money I just lost everything else.

I don't hate poker though I just hate that I played for a living. I quit and tried to get a real job but how the hell am I suppose to give a **** about a job hen I was making way more an hour playing. If I could do it all over again I still play poker but I wish I tried harder in school because I certainly don't wanna be stressed day in and day out deciding if this play is +ev or not. Just my two cents though

P.S. sorry if there are a lot of typo mistakes just drunk and typing on my iPad

My experience:

I supported myself with poker for around two years back in the early-mid 2000's. I've been primarily a 1/2 - 2/5 NL player, and have just started to really get back into the grind the past month since the Hollywood opened up here in Columbus.

This is legitimately a question that I struggle with every day that I've rolled out of bed, and into the shower before flopping into my car to drive to the casino in hopes of pulling out at least enough profit on which to live.

I am intelligent, and I have an education, so couldn't I be doing something more worthwhile than taking money off of a bunch of degenerates at a poker table?

For me, it all comes down to this... my rent is paid, my bills are paid, my child is taken care of, and I know that I am just not the kind of person who can ever have any sort of boss whatsoever. What else can I really ask for?

Sure, I could be making more money doing something else, or at least have a stable income, but I sacrifice that security in order to keep my own sanity. And, again, as long as my life is paid for, what else do I really need?

I didn't regret my decision seven years ago, and I don't regret my decision now. When it comes down to it, with all things being equal, I could spend my work week answering to fifteen different bosses who are all telling me different ways to do the same thing, or I could make the same amount of (or possibly even better) money doing my own thing, and answering to nobody.

I realize that a lot of people aren't the same way, but I will always choose the latter.

Btw, you can make a living at 1/2NL live. People don't like to believe so, but $2000/month isn't very difficult to pull off at that level, and I am comfortable living off of that while also having a kid. Any single, non-parent should be able to be completely content with $2000/month, so I don't see why so many people refuse to believe that 1/2 is a viable game on which to live.

That said, my BR is pretty ****ty right now; although, I have grown it significantly the past month, and I hope to move up to straight 2/5 soon in order to make my life more comfortable while still building my roll.

It's fine. Way better than having a boss.

i dont know why people are saying 2/5 is the 'minimum'. I have almost 700 hours at 1/2 and 1/3 and have a $19.50/hr winrate. Seems like a similar hourly to some normal jobs.

That's about what a second year apprentice electrician or plumber makes. They will make almost double that in their fourth year. Congrats!

no regrets

and i was playing 2/5 within 2 years and now making double. Congrats!

horrible post

actually didnt read thread title correctly

I prob would regret it if I did decide to play live

2-5 is the minimum unless you enjoy mcdonald and walmart

I am in a situation where I can use my education to find a job, however, every job I can get will be boring desk jobs, making less money. My issue isn't whether I like playing for living (4 year live pro), but more that I'd much less rather be working a day job, it is much too boring for me, which may be because I'm a degen.

Poker originally started out fun, then quickly became a way for me to pay for my going out expenses and quickly progressed to paying for college tuition, rent and partying hard. Although I gather to play for a responsible living when I finally grow up and start considering family and kids will become quite tedious, I really can't see myself doing anything else now.

I don't regret the four long years I spent grinding it out, all I know is I would regret it if I didn't continue doing what I enjoy.

Great thread. I graduated last December and decided to go pro post Black Friday despite it crippling me. I figured I'd have enough heart to just grind out another roll ( which I did nonstop two years prior to Black Friday) and continue to chase my dream.
As my third year in college approached I decided I wanted to play for a living afterwards because I love the game and freedom. I spent that time building up a bankroll while paying for school and rent. As the school year approached an end I had a nice roll and was making 1k+ a week from just Rakeback and bonuses on FTP and was hyped to build up a nice roll since I didn't have to dip into it for rent and expenses. I had 3 months of living at home expense free to make a big leap. Then Black Friday hit and I was broke overnight and my income was gone.
I grounded like crazy and now have a nice roll again. I play 5/5 in NYC and make decent money even though the rake is disgusting. I deal once a week and make about 500$+ a night. I also got a part time day job for added income.
A big thing i learned is that you have to adapt to the situation at hand if u wanna be successful. I have a decent toll now and a lot of monthly bills to boot, so all my profits aren't going directly to building my roll. I learned to stay patient throughout this time and I know I'll get to where I want to be if I keep trucking. So far I never really regretted this decision I made to play poker. Sometimes I doubt my decision when I have a long live losing stretch, but that's just short term thinking. Well see how I feel about this a year from now I guess.

Uhm, people need to lighten up and get some perspective. If you're a poker pro, you need to understand there are other nice satisfying jobs and you re not this ultimate baller. There are also other jobs that give you freedom.

How can you compare being a poker pro, with for example, my brothers job - a doctor. Two entirely different things, two different concepts and reasons of being. One is not better than the other. Poker gives you freedom and that amazing sense of achievement (if you're a winning player). Being a doctor gives you some good money and is a very very satisfying job.

I work in finance and i like my job. I get paid way more than I can ever win at poker (I'm a recreational player and not very good at all). I don't hate my job although I would obviously love to win the lottery and retire while doing some pet projects.

There are also other jobs that give you freedom. I ran a bar for 2 years and it was an amazing experience as I had the employees running everything and I just oversaw things. So I'd just be there with my friends and supervise. That was amazing freedom and let me work my own hours.

Being a poker player definitely has its advantages but let's not make it out to seem as if it is this holy grail that one has to achieve or otherwise they are doomed to "slavery". I think a lot of 20 year olds who have never worked a proper job for years do not understand what it's like and they have this intrinsic fear of being tied down and that life will end once they get a proper job. I totally understand, I was the same 8-10 years ago.

Ps. Hope this didn't come out the wrong way, huge respect for winning players.. It's an amazing achievement to make money doing something you love.