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A Terrible Call with Kings on the WSOP Main Event FT Bubble... and here's why (SPOILERS) A Terrible Call with Kings on the WSOP Main Event FT Bubble... and here's why (SPOILERS)

07-12-2018 , 05:52 AM
And the final table of the 2018 WSOP Main Event is set! Congratulations to everyone that made it, especially Nicolas Manion with a near triple-up to soar into the chip lead. That being said, my heartfelt condolences go out to both Yueqi Zhu and Antoine Labat. Zhu got eliminated with Kings in the grossest FT bubble spot I’ve ever seen. Labat is still in it, he is just a distant ninth place with a lot of work left if he wants to win the title. Oh, he had Kings too. He lost over 80% of his chips in that last hand.

And it was a TERRIBLE CALL.

As an MTT player, it is so important to be ICM aware. As you approach a final table, ICM pressure becomes very real. You need to be aware of the stack constellation at your table: who are the big stacks, who are the short stacks, where does your stack fit on that spectrum? ICM affects everything about how you play these tables where the prizes and the pay jumps really start to matter. One chip is no longer worth one chip. Chips are all intensely more valuable, in this case worth millions of dollars based on where you can expect to finish with your current stack. Using software like Holdem Resources Calculator or ICMizer, along with the payout structure of your tournament, you can calculate what IS or ISN’T a profitable all-in or call of an all-in. Labat had good reason to fold his Kings and hopefully you will all agree.

I entered in all of the payout information for the final ten spots along with chip stacks. Nicolas Manion is UTG, Antoine Labat is MP2, and Yueqi Zhu is MP3. As you can see, Labat is second in chips with over 51 million. Manion is fifth with 36 million and Zhu is in seventh with 24.7 million. Zhu is the effective stack with just over 40 big blinds. This is SUPER important. ICM pressure is very high mid-stack vs mid-stack with shorter stacks likely to bust before you. This is important later on…



Blinds are $600k/$300k with $100k ante. The action of this hand starts with Manion openraising pocket Aces from under-the-gun to to $150,000. Labat gets sneaky with Kings and just flats. Directly behind him, Zhu also wakes up with pocket Kings. Rather than flatting or 3betting smaller, Zhu casually flicks in his FORTY BIG BLIND STACK (WTF???). If any of you were watching the action, Manion was probably the nittiest of all the remaining players, rarely getting out of line. After thinking for only a few seconds, Manion casually rejams his SIXTY BIG BLIND STACK (HOLY SH*# !!!!!!!).

This is the spot Labat finds himself in. Currently being in second place which pays out $5 million, and being faced with insane action from two players, including the tightest one left, on the biggest final table bubble of the year, Labat calls off with Kings.

Manion’s Aces hold and he becomes the overwhelming chip leader. Zhu is eliminated in 10th place for $850,025. Labat does make the FT but with a life support stack of $8 million, not even fifteen big blinds. He locks up $1 million by making the FT, but likely lost hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars by calling off Kings.

Enough with the recap. Let’s calculate.



This is my 14.3% UTG opening range for Manion. Honestly in this spot, being the tightest player by far, this is an intensely OPTIMISTIC opening range. He could easily be opening a 10% range or less on the FT bubble of the Main Event, the most important poker spot of his life. I gave Manion as wide a range as I did to help illustrate just how bad Labat’s call with Kings is.



Labat is the next one to put chips in the pot from MP+2, electing to flat Kings. I gave him a 10% flatting range, but this is also a little difficult to gauge. Against the nittiest player left he may be flatting even tighter. Labat will also three-bet some of these hands, trying to put pressure on the tightest player. KK+, AK are only 50% flats precisely because Labat is three-betting these on his own a fair amount of the time. Here he flats though, and this is the range I gave him.



Finally, this is Zhu’s 3bet jam range. Once again, this is incredibly OPTIMISTIC. It wouldn’t be unreasonable for Zhu to have a 3bet jam range of QQ+, AKs or TIGHTER, especially with a massive FORTY BIG BLIND STACK (WTF?????). What Zhu does here is ICM suicide with hands that basically aren’t QQ+. Once again, I am choosing this wide range just to help show how bad this call is.

After setting my ranges for the first preflop betting actions that are largely subjective and range-dependent, I ran my HRC calculations to see what is profitable for the following actions.



This is Manion’s profitable 4bet rejam range. Repeat: this is MANION’S range, our UTG friend holding pocket rockets. A profitable 4bet jam for him is KK+, so Aces are an easy get in here.

To re-emphasize, Manion is the TIGHTEST PLAYER ON THE TABLE. By jamming his 60BB stack, he not only puts two-thirds of his stack on the line, he is putting his entire Main Event on the line should Labat call. To be fair, he likely isn’t expecting Labat to show up here with a monster after only flatting pre. Despite that, he has still put forty big blinds on the line with barely ten seconds of thought put into it. Manion is not showing up here with garbage.

And that is why this spot is so sick. Labat was dreaming of bracelets and is suddenly living a nightmare. To his credit, it looked like he understood how sick the spot was. The ICM pressure is absolutely massive. Facing the action he is, with all of the shorter stacks at the table and ability to run deep, he needs to call off way TIGHTER. Here is Labat’s profitable calling range of both Manion and Zhu facing a Manion KK+ rejam.



Yes, Labat can only call Aces. This is because of ICM. Labat’s stack, starting the hand with over 80 big blinds, is worth MILLIONS of dollars. Kings might be good here, but he loses often enough that it is not worth getting it in in this spot. Kings are BURNING money. You are better off calling 54s in this spot.

Alright, maybe Manion rips it in a little lighter, lets say QQ+ as best case scenario. What is Labat’s profitable calling range then?



Kings are doing a lot better but are still absolutely torching money. Let me remind you, this was calculated using optimistically wide ranges for both Manion and Zhu. If they are both playing tighter than I gave them credit for, Kings are performing even worse in this spot. Labat just has to find the fold button.

This is all based on my personal, flawed, man-made ranges. If Labat thinks Manion is rejamming a little wider, let’s say QQ+, AK, then Labat would be making a profitable call. Now, is Manion rejamming that wide in this spot?

Not a ****ing chance.

Give credit where credit is due though. This was absolutely one of the sickest spots I’ve ever seen. Biggest tournament of the year, biggest poker moment of all of these guy’s lives (unless you’re Joe Cada). Just a sick cooler, but that’s poker.

Yes, Labat made a bad call. But it’s easy to sit here and say that he made the wrong play. Could you lay down Kings in this spot?

(I’d like to think that I could )
A Terrible Call with Kings on the WSOP Main Event FT Bubble... and here's why (SPOILERS) Quote
07-12-2018 , 06:40 AM
Always Fold pre, Brah’
A Terrible Call with Kings on the WSOP Main Event FT Bubble... and here's why (SPOILERS) Quote
07-12-2018 , 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmbxr9
Always Fold pre, Brah’
this
A Terrible Call with Kings on the WSOP Main Event FT Bubble... and here's why (SPOILERS) Quote
07-12-2018 , 09:56 AM
A Terrible Call with Kings on the WSOP Main Event FT Bubble... and here's why (SPOILERS) Quote
07-12-2018 , 07:41 AM
What are the odds of a chop before this hand? If all you were playing for was the bracelet, doesn’t that changes things?
A Terrible Call with Kings on the WSOP Main Event FT Bubble... and here's why (SPOILERS) Quote
07-12-2018 , 07:50 AM
Kings are a good hand. I like kings.
A Terrible Call with Kings on the WSOP Main Event FT Bubble... and here's why (SPOILERS) Quote
07-12-2018 , 07:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerd e tron
This was absolutely one of the sickest spots I’ve ever seen.
so much this. interesting read. thanks for posting your analysis of the hand.

In unrelated news... the Brat won his 15th . Suck it all you High Roller GTO robots who laugh at his play.
A Terrible Call with Kings on the WSOP Main Event FT Bubble... and here's why (SPOILERS) Quote
07-12-2018 , 08:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTLou
so much this. interesting read. thanks for posting your analysis of the hand.

In unrelated news... the Brat won his 15th . Suck it all you High Roller GTO robots who laugh at his play.
Gotta love poker, Phil Hellmuth branwashed millions of pokerplaying recs like this guy.

You just see the big picture and get star struck. the guy won a turbo donkament which requires a large amount of rungood, and he was behind 4 times for his tourney life. You wont talk about that, or acknowledge that his play is really laughable. Do you think its ok to limp/fold an Ace with 7 bbs? sb to bb? Do you think its ok to raise/fold your button with 8 bbs? Do you think its ok to fold QQ to a single raise preflop in a 4 handed game? Phil has done these on more than one occasion, cashgames form around him, he avoids the big super high rolller scene and the tough EPTS. He is a fish in todays game.
One night of rungood doesnt take away the yrs of crap he shown us.
A Terrible Call with Kings on the WSOP Main Event FT Bubble... and here's why (SPOILERS) Quote
07-12-2018 , 09:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatsUpGuys
Gotta love poker, Phil Hellmuth branwashed millions of pokerplaying recs like this guy.

You just see the big picture and get star struck. the guy won a turbo donkament which requires a large amount of rungood, and he was behind 4 times for his tourney life. You wont talk about that, or acknowledge that his play is really laughable. Do you think its ok to limp/fold an Ace with 7 bbs? sb to bb? Do you think its ok to raise/fold your button with 8 bbs? Do you think its ok to fold QQ to a single raise preflop in a 4 handed game? Phil has done these on more than one occasion, cashgames form around him, he avoids the big super high rolller scene and the tough EPTS. He is a fish in todays game.
One night of rungood doesnt take away the yrs of crap he shown us.
I don't know man, some people are just connected to the universe.
When I was playing a tourney with my GF
And I told her I'm not folding to an all-in with QQ 13bb deep far away from the bubble in a top heavy tourney
She said I'm wrong
she can feel it
we will lose this one
let's fold!
I just couldn't.
And of course, we lost that hand...to A6o and I still have it on my plate!
Just like there might be god, there might be people playing with the feels that people bound by the nerdy shackles of math and reality can never understand.
People that don't stack off with QQ in that spot and live on in the tournament
People that win 15 Bracelets and become the best WSOP players of all time and keep pushing the envelope of what's possible
A Terrible Call with Kings on the WSOP Main Event FT Bubble... and here's why (SPOILERS) Quote
07-12-2018 , 04:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon93PCTSure
Just like there might be god, there might be people playing with the feels that people bound by the nerdy shackles of math and reality can never understand.

I think I just found my new band name
A Terrible Call with Kings on the WSOP Main Event FT Bubble... and here's why (SPOILERS) Quote
07-12-2018 , 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatsUpGuys
.
One night of rungood doesnt take away the yrs of crap he shown us.
a bit OT to otherwise good thread.... but he's had a bit more than one night of run good.

also perhaps there is something more to winning large field, MTTs than making absolute game theory optimal play each decision.

On a personal level PH comes across as a tool (IRL dunno). But you just cant argue against the strategy he has developed over the years to beat these large WSOP fields.

I was simply making fun of any of the high roller regs that make fun of Phil. Why? Because it makes me laugh. They jelly much? My post had more to do with them than PH.
A Terrible Call with Kings on the WSOP Main Event FT Bubble... and here's why (SPOILERS) Quote
07-12-2018 , 09:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatsUpGuys
Gotta love poker, Phil Hellmuth branwashed millions of pokerplaying recs like this guy.

You just see the big picture and get star struck. the guy won a turbo donkament which requires a large amount of rungood, and he was behind 4 times for his tourney life. You wont talk about that, or acknowledge that his play is really laughable. Do you think its ok to limp/fold an Ace with 7 bbs? sb to bb? Do you think its ok to raise/fold your button with 8 bbs? Do you think its ok to fold QQ to a single raise preflop in a 4 handed game? Phil has done these on more than one occasion, cashgames form around him, he avoids the big super high rolller scene and the tough EPTS. He is a fish in todays game.
One night of rungood doesnt take away the yrs of crap he shown us.
While I do believe you make a valid point, I will argue that this type of comment would never be made is some high praised German would have won a bracelet. If that happens, we praise the German or High Roller player as a "wizard" or "end-boss". Of course Phil plays less than GTO in quite a few spots....I think some of his plays are whacky and not mathematically correct....But, regardless of his play, he does consistently Final Table events each year or at the very least run deep quite a bit. His whiny attitude is annoying, but he obviously is doing something right in these tournaments.
A Terrible Call with Kings on the WSOP Main Event FT Bubble... and here's why (SPOILERS) Quote
07-12-2018 , 08:28 AM
Hey OP- you are only 99% Nerd ... you got a few things wrong, there are Total Chips 393,700,000 in play, not what you listed, and also the ante was not 100k this hand, thats a mistake on pokernews, it had to have been 50k if i had to guess. Theres no chance the ante is a third of a smalll blind

Horrible call though i agree and said that from the start. Hes chopping at best and not commited at all.
A Terrible Call with Kings on the WSOP Main Event FT Bubble... and here's why (SPOILERS) Quote
07-12-2018 , 08:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatsUpGuys
Hey OP- you are only 99% Nerd ... you got a few things wrong, there are Total Chips 393,700,000 in play, not what you listed, and also the ante was not 100k this hand, thats a mistake on pokernews, it had to have been 50k if i had to guess. Theres no chance the ante is a third of a smalll blind

Horrible call though i agree and said that from the start. Hes chopping at best and not commited at all.
The ante was indeed 100k.
Level was 300k/600k/100k


Also, you can’t just take the number of entries and multiply by 50k to get the number of chips in play. You will only ever get the chips in play at the start of the tournament from that.
Colour ups and errors in colour up change that figure, not to mention DQs and chips removed by players like Men Nguyen

Last edited by PeteBlow; 07-12-2018 at 09:04 AM.
A Terrible Call with Kings on the WSOP Main Event FT Bubble... and here's why (SPOILERS) Quote
07-12-2018 , 02:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatsUpGuys
the ante was not 100k this hand, thats a mistake on pokernews, it had to have been 50k if i had to guess. Theres no chance the ante is a third of a smalll blind
You guessed wrong. Do you even know how to do your own research?

http://www.wsop.com/pdfs/structuresh...1487_16465.pdf
A Terrible Call with Kings on the WSOP Main Event FT Bubble... and here's why (SPOILERS) Quote
07-12-2018 , 08:48 AM
nice analysis, does seem like a terrible spot
A Terrible Call with Kings on the WSOP Main Event FT Bubble... and here's why (SPOILERS) Quote
07-12-2018 , 09:06 AM
if a King had come on the flop, this thread would never happen.
A Terrible Call with Kings on the WSOP Main Event FT Bubble... and here's why (SPOILERS) Quote
07-12-2018 , 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by minecraft
if a King had come on the flop, this thread would never happen.
oh i dunno i have a sneaking suspicion that had a king come on the flop there would have been a thread here on 2p2.

id even go out on a limb and say that thread would have been much longer than this one.
A Terrible Call with Kings on the WSOP Main Event FT Bubble... and here's why (SPOILERS) Quote
07-12-2018 , 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverboatking
oh i dunno i have a sneaking suspicion that had a king come on the flop there would have been a thread here on 2p2.

id even go out on a limb and say that thread would have been much longer than this one.
lol, +1, my exact thoughts
A Terrible Call with Kings on the WSOP Main Event FT Bubble... and here's why (SPOILERS) Quote
07-12-2018 , 09:07 AM
pretty sure he is still down money in the past 10 years though
A Terrible Call with Kings on the WSOP Main Event FT Bubble... and here's why (SPOILERS) Quote
07-12-2018 , 10:01 AM
Nice analysis. The key to the hand is Labat's flat of Manion's open. Instead suppose Labat 3 bets to 5 million, then Zhu's 4 bet shoves for 40 BB and Manion 5 bet shoves 60 BB. With this action, it looks like both Zhu's and Manion's ranges are kk+. I think with this action, Labat could find the fold. With his flat, his hand is under repped and Manion's range now includes QQ and AK and Labat can't find the fold.
A Terrible Call with Kings on the WSOP Main Event FT Bubble... and here's why (SPOILERS) Quote
07-12-2018 , 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtt300
Nice analysis. The key to the hand is Labat's flat of Manion's open. Instead suppose Labat 3 bets to 5 million, then Zhu's 4 bet shoves for 40 BB and Manion 5 bet shoves 60 BB. With this action, it looks like both Zhu's and Manion's ranges are kk+. I think with this action, Labat could find the fold. With his flat, his hand is under repped and Manion's range now includes QQ and AK and Labat can't find the fold.
Yeah there is no question that was a big factor and it was a very bad misplay too. You can’t flat call that from as early a position as Labat was in. If you want to flat call that from the button or blinds if nobody else has called in front it’s not a bad move but with like 6-7 more to act behind you it’s just bad
A Terrible Call with Kings on the WSOP Main Event FT Bubble... and here's why (SPOILERS) Quote
11-05-2018 , 01:56 AM
Look I'm an occasional amateur. But I thought the call was bad. Ignore the math of it.

Manion was just too fast with his decision to such a Zhu overbet. Especially with Labat still there with more chips than Zhu. On the bubble. That spot requires A LOT OF THOUGHT. But he didn't think. He didn't even blink. Put his tournament and missing final nine on the line basically automatically. THE TIGHTEST PLAYER AT THE TABLE DID THAT.

That's aces or kings. There is no other hand.

And EVEN IF LABAT IS WRONG what's the downside? He makes final nine, more likely to get promotional deals as he's a final nine for the rest of his life , and he's got lots of chips. But how often does a tight player NOT TAKE TIME TO THINK IN THAT SPOT. Who playing tight in Manion's spot playing tight suddenly calls all in there without thought without Aces or Kings?

I just don't think he emotionally showed anything different there. Tight players just don't at random in a high pressure spot go to looser than super tight WITH NO THOUGHT.
A Terrible Call with Kings on the WSOP Main Event FT Bubble... and here's why (SPOILERS) Quote
11-05-2018 , 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shonuffharlem
And EVEN IF LABAT IS WRONG what's the downside? He makes final nine, more likely to get promotional deals as he's a final nine for the rest of his life.....
Sure, you may be correct if it was still 2008 when online poker was still a thing, and players got all patched up for the November Final Table, but today...not so much.
A Terrible Call with Kings on the WSOP Main Event FT Bubble... and here's why (SPOILERS) Quote
07-12-2018 , 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtt300
Nice analysis. The key to the hand is Labat's flat of Manion's open. Instead suppose Labat 3 bets to 5 million, then Zhu's 4 bet shoves for 40 BB and Manion 5 bet shoves 60 BB. With this action, it looks like both Zhu's and Manion's ranges are kk+. I think with this action, Labat could find the fold. With his flat, his hand is under repped and Manion's range now includes QQ and AK and Labat can't find the fold.
I was thinking something similar (although I think I'd still fold).

How do we know Labat wasn't hoping to induce a squeeze play and got exactly what he was trying to set up?

Having said that, once Manion (who appeared to be playing tight) quickly pushes, I think I'd pucker up and save my 45+ Milly for another situation

problem with me is my tight ass will never be in this situation so wtf do I know?
A Terrible Call with Kings on the WSOP Main Event FT Bubble... and here's why (SPOILERS) Quote

      
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