Why would a company that owns the world's largest casino (600,000 sf of gaming space) located in the middle of nowhere want gaming to become legalized in the state of Texas? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

And if Choctaw doesn't even care about poker, then why do they partner with the likes of WPT and WSOP for their tournaments?

Yep. Both W and C have made changes to how they run their games trying to offset the pull of the Texas clubs. Buy ins, straddles, promotions, etc.

W actively advertises in Texas. They even sponsor Texas CHRISTIAN University athletics. Pretty sure they have no interest in opening a casino or two in a heavily saturated future Texas market.

Hell, the bottom of the Dallas Cowboys' 60-yard long Jumbotron says Winstar.

It's even worse than that - they don't even believe in a free economy there either - you can buy laws that favor your business over others. Yet they constantly harp on how Texas is business-friendly. That's technically true but that friendship requires opening your wallet to politicians.

"Under Texas franchise laws, consumers can only buy cars from auto dealers and can’t buy them directly from automakers. As it stands in the Lone Star State, Tesla’s company-owned outlets can’t legally sell a Tesla in Texas."

https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/tex...ctly-to-texans

Praise the Good Lord Jesus for that!

This.

Poker is a small fish in the casino, the least profitable offering. In fact, as someone who used to play a great deal of live poker and had comp points but would also partake in small amounts of slots, video poker and low bet blackjack. Even if I played 30 hours straight in the poker room my comp would pale in comparison to 30 minutes of penny slots. It's more complex than this as they apply some "average weighted" application of comp, so playing slots AND poker was bad for my comp because I primarily played poker and hurt my comp by doing otherwise, but that's the idea. If I just played slot or blackjack, I'd receive FAR more comp.

Poker is player vs player, you pay the vig for the privilege of a professional dealer, safe environment and enforceable rules. It's not you vs. the House. With skill, study and discipline, you can be a long term winner in poker through many +EV choices

Ultimately, in a perfect world, the casino uses poker as a "gateway" to their pit games and slots. That's the ideal that they wish. Get some young person in via poker, when they are on the waiting list or simply exposed to the sounds and lights of the others games, they may play them. As I did, though I'm a very small player, 30-50 cent per spin type rec slot guy, truly just "meh, I'm bored I will play for a little while".

Slots and table games are far more profitable to the casino. Texas could happily allow poker only casinos all across the state, as long as they avoid slots, blackjack, roulette and other games of chance, I don't even view these card rooms as casinos. It's player vs player, not player vs. the House in a rigged game of slots.

This is actually a reason for the huge casinos on the other side of the Texas border to want these games shut down. Even if the rooms are not competition, gambling getting a legal toehold in Texas when you have 600,000 sf of gaming space in podunk Oklahoma population 400 is a terrible prospect for your business.

You post this as if this isn't what actually happens. Oklahoma casinos are 18 and up. The vast majority of 18-21 year old players that I've known who grinded on the Oklahoma border ended up with serious gambling addictions. Also, you don't think when players get felted at poker that they don't often go place big bets on table games? Tons of poker players have major issues losing money in the pits. This is pretty well known. Plenty of husbands bring their wives to the casino with them, allowing the wife to play slots while they play poker.

Poker isn't all skill. Is doing flips skill? Is playing red/black skill? Is matching stack for $8k at 2/5 and then going all in blind your first hand and doubling up vs AK skill? Is calling 87o for $30k to flop trips when you have $41k behind skill? These are the exact type of players that the casino shouldn't want to lose in any form or fashion.

That's not even mentioning the thousands of players that poker tournaments bring to these casinos (didn't Choctaw have like the busiest WSOP circuit stop in the past?)

That is why you offer poker only not pit games or slots.

I used to be an avid stock investor and I would shrug my shoulders at the guy buying an IPO of a company that had zero track record and was little more than a skeleton business. I'd do the same when someone bought a penny stock, often the companies folded shop a year later, if that. How about overpaying for a well known tech stock that doesn't even have positive earnings? I call THESE major gambles.

Life is full of gamble and I agree it's not the most productive use of time. Maybe the government should place strict advertising limits. In Ontario you can't advertise cigarettes or drinking beer (though sports betting and casino betting is now everywhere, the product of poor management of tax payer dollars but I digress).

Educate people to realize that it's gambling and there are countless better ways to earn money and even spend your time. Otherwise, playing the odd game of poker is just recreation, just as bowling or shooting pool at the bar are. The same people going all in blind are probably also the same types chasing crypto, penny stock derivatives and other speculative investments. In one way or another, if people lack logic, impulse or are too lazy to do their research, a fool and their money will still part regardless of the vehicle.

True but is winstar actually a major gaming corp? Certainly not the only one. So maybe W never wants to see legal casino gaming in TX but what about the real major players like CET, MGM, Wynn, etc. Sure the mgr of Horseshoe Bossier prefers tx remain casino free but he might have a different opinion from CET CEO. Same for Fertita and the local GN casino mgr.

But maybe those bigger bosses prefer tx remain casino free, but that doesn’t mean ALL casino execs agree. No one said all casino execs feel that that way. I did not even say any did. Only said a case could be made for such a strategy. It would require more detailed analysis to vet the idea. One that is beyond a chat board analysis.

Even were it a bad strategy, that would not preclude all execs from having it as a strategy as not all execs are actually good visionaries.

Two recent posts were deleted for bringing politics into the discussion. While the current situation regarding Texas card rooms naturally touches on Texas politics, please keep this thread devoted exclusively to the poker aspects of the situation.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Yes, Las Vegas Sands is trying to get legislation passed which will allow them to put casinos in Texas. It has always sounded like they intend to be the only player in town, and it certainly wouldn't surprise me if the legislation is written with a clause outlawing these poker rooms.

Below is the money I know of being spent by casino operators this year to sway legislation (either in favor or opposed to Texas Casinos)

Las Vegas Sands (via Sands PAC) (in favor): $1,552,062 on various elections (including $200k to Greg Abbott)
Dr Miriam Adelson (in favor): $1 million to Greg Abbott
Tilman & Paige Fertitta (opposed): $1,730,250 on various elections (including $912,250 to Greg Abbott)
Chickasaw Nation (opposed): $709,000 on various elections (including $300k to Greg Abbott)

Source: https://www.transparencyusa.org/tx/donors

Originally Posted by Dream Crusher View Post
This is actually a reason for the huge casinos on the other side of the Texas border to want these games shut down. Even if the rooms are not competition, gambling getting a legal toehold in Texas when you have 600,000 sf of gaming space in podunk Oklahoma population 400 is a terrible prospect for your business.

Winstar actually has 370,000 sf of gaming space.

Did they recently scale back? The chickasaw country website says they have over 500k sf of gaming space.

Actually, upon further investigation it appears Winstar had 380k of gaming space back in 2008 and has expanded since then.

" The expansion would double the size of the facility to 380,000 square feet of gaming space"

source: https://www.winstar.com/footer/history/

DC correct, as usual...

https://www.casino.org/blog/10-of-th...-casinos-ever/

Super interesting data.

Horse tracks also have a seat at the table.
If any sort of gaming legislation were to ever get passed in TX. I wonder if it would start with something small at tracks.

I would assume that group most connected with local politics. Also tracks is where a lot of states start with gaming, then as always expands from there.

Lonestar Park, the horse racing track in Dallas/Ft Worth, is owned by Global Gaming Solutions LLC, which is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Chickasaw Nation.

https://www.gambling.com/us/news/lar...the-us-2237800

Another recent article says it has 400,000 sf so confusing

Next time I go I'll take my measuring wheel and put this topic to bed.

This detail is critically important. HOW MANY SQFT OF GAMING SPACE DO THEY HAVE?

I haven’t read any of the responses but all I’ll say is this: it was huge red flag when that one Texas cardroom proposed Doug Polk and Brad Owen to buy them out. They smelled something like this coming and wanted out. And who better than 2 poker players who most likely won’t have the inside knowledge other big wig casinos would have

Rake is taken……if not in pots(majority takes hourly)……..but they all rake in tourneys…….and all of the biggest rooms run larger GTD tourneys monthly……so yes they rake! I dig Texas poker alot! But i give it another year or 2 max……..it already is drying up! No regulations…….cities + counties do not benefit…….and there is no gaming commission……WTF did you think was going to happen……Take all you can now while it lasts! Lol

What do you mean cities/counties do not benefit? TCH Dallas generated over a million dollars in sales tax revenue last year.

BTW, Texas law does not specify anything about rake.

I would think the defense to running tournaments would be the same as the defense to running cash games. Whether you play cash games or tournaments you are charged a fee to use the facilities. No money is taken out of the prize pool in tournaments and no money is taken out of the pots in cash games.

IMO, Dealer tips are the bigger sticking point.

I never liked the TCH stream anyway. Incredibly boring commentary. There's a reason the lodge leapfrogged ahead of them in viewership (having star power of Polk/Neeme/Owen can't hurt either)