https://www.pokernews.com/news/2022/...oker-40598.htm

Looks like they are going to fight the ruling. Do they have ANY chance of overturning? What will happen to the other locations?

Penal Code Section 47.04 mentioned in the article reads as follows:

Texas Penal Code - PENAL § 47.04. Keeping a Gambling Place

(a) A person commits an offense if he knowingly uses or permits another to use as a gambling place any real estate, building, room, tent, vehicle, boat, or other property whatsoever owned by him or under his control, or rents or lets any such property with a view or expectation that it be so used.

(b) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that:

(1) the gambling occurred in a private place;

(2) no person received any economic benefit other than personal winnings;  and

(3) except for the advantage of skill or luck, the risks of losing and the chances of winning were the same for all participants.

(c) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.


"Gambling place" is defined under 47.01 as "means any real estate, building, room, tent, vehicle, boat, or other property whatsoever, one of the uses of which is the making or settling of bets, bookmaking, or the conducting of a lottery or the playing of gambling devices."

"Bet" is defined under 47.01 as ""Bet" means an agreement to win or lose something of value solely or partially by chance."

Seems to me this is pretty clear cut and all card rooms in Texas are operating illegally as the law is written. Not only the cardroom is breaking the law, but if the building is leased, the person leasing the building to the cardroom is also breaking the law.

LOL card rooms thinking they can get around this because they arent receiving any economic benefit. They are.

the beginning of the end. Was fun while it lasted guys, pack it in. we're done.

I'm not sure how it lasted this long to be honest. I guess the recent hold up in I think it was Houston brought it to neighbors attention that they may have illegal gambling houses in their neighborhoods, which attract robbers.

Many attorneys, including the Dallas City Attorney, have read "no person receives an economic benefit" as meaning from the bet/money gambled. Not an economic benefit related to that.

Obviously it's possible to read it multiple ways, but saying if any person receives any benefit at all would stretch far and wide. If a bar runs a free tourney with winner getting a gift card, and their sales go up, is that now illegal gambling? If I host a rake-free tourney in a downtown office, and several of the players park in a paid parking lot, is that now illegal gambling?

Obviously, those are further removed from clubs receiving hourly fees, but the issue is how do you decide where to draw the line when the statute has no line? It is either read it as "economic benefit from the money gambled" or accept some truly absurd results.

Bad investment by Polk and those other 2 vlogger guys?

I will not comment on that, but it was a great move by the previous owner. He, like most of us, likely knew this was coming at some point. Hedge out, maybe even profit while still owning a chunk of the business? Seems like a smart business move.

question for a lawyer as yourself. is the spirit of the law enforceable or only the letter of the law?

Does not seem ideal

Very much a generalization here. But, only the letter of the law can be enforced. But, the spirit of the law can be used to narrow the apparent letter of the law. As an example, let's say a law is passed saying employees have to be at least 21, and based upon the legislative history, i.e., what was said during debate in the legislature, that the law is meant to apply to liquor stores. However, the law isn't written well enough, and by the letter of the law it appears to apply to restaurants that serve alcohol as well. Now, if so, then restaurants can't have 16-20 year-old waitstaff, bussers, cooks, etc. In such a case, the courts might apply the spirit of the law, and not apply it to restaurants.

Cheers, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

Your bar example is covered under alcohol regs and is illegal. You hypothetical is very much like example TABC uses. For the poker rooms selling or generally just serving alcohol except for very specific circumstances, the alcohol regs are clear. I believe a much easier way for the state to shut down those rooms if they choose.

The gambling regs have not been tested yet. Some rooms that stick completely to the original premise of a private club and seat tent might be okay. Even these have some challenges. Many, do to over competing, have strayed outside that narrow model. Raking tournaments, pinging a house seat, raking pot directly. Originally some rooms did not even allow tipping from pot.

If the state or cities choose they could easily shutdown the vast majority of current rooms and at min force a major restructuring of the rooms.

From what I have seen TCH has remained consistent with the original loophole model. I also don’t believe they sell or serve alcohol (some are byob). If they were to lose in court under the gambling laws as written, I believe all the rooms would be in real trouble.

Where is ECB? Can't believe he hasn't posted 20 posts about this here yet?

Reading the law again, it is talking about "keeping a gambling place". The law says "no person received any economic benefit other than personal winnings" in reference to being a defense to the keeping of a gambling place.

Maybe the fact Bildo dumped all CV19 relief money he scammed n the summer might have to do with it?

He's jumping up and down with his lawyer.

So it’s likely owners of the lodge were warned or saw signs of this coming soon and sold a portion to Doug brad and Andrew. Is this legal? Am I allowed to sell a business without saying I have knowledge there will be govt crackdown soon and it will negatively impact the business?

maybe in a very general sense, but unless covered in reps and warrants section of sale docs then no.

also what happened in Dallas has no immediate impact on any other city county. Could just be one local politician with stick up his ass about the evils of gambling.

I think all clearly understood the near term and long term risks and baked those into terms

Lol. This will have no effect on San Antonio or Austin, two markets that have been reliably consistent over the years. Dallas (and to a lesser extent Houston) have always been hostile markets, places being shut down shouldn't come as a surprise. Austin and San Antonio have never had a club shut down, despite similar scares to this once every year or two.

In Texas it is not a state thing it is based on the local authorities. Dallas has always been the worst of the major cities on cracking down on these (many say due to money/donations from the OK Indian tribes). San Antonio, Austin and Houston haven't cracked down much. The Houston DA tried a few years back and got ***** slapped due to some underhanded stuff that went on behind the scenes(her main consultant taking $ from the poker rooms) and after that it has been hands off. Don't think she would risk going after them again after that fiasco.

The fact that Dallas is cracking down really has nothing to do with anything in Houston, San Antonio or Austin(which was the first city where these "seat rental places" launched more than 6 years ago).

Why has this new thread been created for something that's been discussed for days now in another thread? Why is the title of this thread "forced to close" when they are still open?

Why is this topic being discussed in a thread about Polk, Neeme & Owen's poker room in Austin? Could you see how certain individuals wouldn't be able to find that when looking for a discussion about TCH Dallas?

Happens right after the clearly illegal floor ruling after an angle shooting incident? Coincidence?

Happens at about 9:35 below

https://youtube.com/watch?v=LaL0IylZSvQ&feature=share

Why is Polk, Neeme, and Owen's poker room being discussed in this thread? There's literally been no new information introduced in this thread other than the title which is misleading and false. This thread is completely pointless without all the previous discussion added to it.

That's a completely different poker room.

So what? Same owners.