you need to stop posting now

The articles comments come from people who don't know anything about poker, and again offer no evidence, rather a similar mindset to you of 'oh they must be doing that'. Probably because they would do it themselves if given the opportunity

Herostory. Really? Me posting is good for u DUCY


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I've heard welfare while grinding discussed at Melbourne crown casino tables

Seen same discussion it non-Australia grinder Skype groups

It's been talked about on 2p2

JFC it's not some outlandish accusation. I'd bet a tonne on money it's over 20%


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I'd also bet all those people are paying income tax. Maybe that's why they are mad

So we've gone from 'most of them' to over 20% now? Keep shifting the goal posts. Hell I'll bet a tonne of money it's under 20%, shame we can't prove it - which is the entire point of this conversation.

Instead of attacking me. How about you guys do something. Swoop and Joey have been excellent but unsupported. Joey now needs $8000+ that he can deploy on Facebook and Instagram boosted posts ie where people's disproportionate attention is at to this cause. You would probably get some whales to wade in with more $ and/or someone with political influence

glgl


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The majority of the public's view that poker pro's are cheating the system because we don't pay income tax(which isn't our fault, the government had the chance to do it in 2012 and didn't) is just an pointless statement or opinion because a very large amount of people that think this have no understanding for the industry, no understanding for how the government operates, take what main stream media sources tell them as truth and simply don't care enough to educate themselves on the subject matter before making stupid as **** statements on it.

Then for those types of people to make massive assumptions that a majority of online pro's claim welfare benefits is laughable. Are there some doing it, i have no doubt there is but it would be a very small % just like it is within the general public when it comes to people getting benefits they shouldn't be.

Wait, so we've gone from most, to over 50%, to 20%? So basically what you're saying is there's a chance that some people do what you initially said? Well no **** sherlock, thanks for clearing up that some people may do something sometimes!

you're the one that unsupported them.

stop derailing this thread. ppl have put too much work into this and it's important.

Alright then


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bumpnrun, do you really even understand what you need to do to get welfare in aus? it's not as easy as rocking up and saying "oi I have no job give me money". Yes we agree that the amount of money thrown behind joey is pathetic, stop being a f....cking d!@k. JFC.

No, No, No, No, No

You don't understand. The government has no inclination to tax poker winnings for individuals as again under our system of taxation you would also have to allow a player to be able to deduct losses from their assessable income in the years that proceed it (I think there is a maximum of 5 years in which you can use these losses as deductions). So there will never be a circumstance where poker winnings will be taxed and this is mainly based on the fact that the majority of players are losing players (and hence it would cost the taxpayer more in lost revenue than it would in the additional revenue that it would provide).

The other point regarding what bumpnrun said is that this has been a pretty poorly orchestrated campaign to save online poker and what was needed was, as he said, that the pros contribute to a pool of funding so some serious social media campaigning could have been undertaken. A poker pro making a case now that online poker should stay is not going to have really any positive effect on online poker being saved (I mean Senator Leyonhjelm was always going to support you no matter what bill was proposed as a result of that Senate/Parliamentary committee and the effort should always have been directed to the Liberals and One Nation with Xenophon and Labor being a waste of time).

In any event, you should be focusing 100% on the platform that online poker is a much better and less destructive option that people can pursue if they have to gamble than other forms of gambling activities, such as pokies and other games at Casinos, etc.

i didn't mean poker specific, the report back in 2012 gave recommendations as to how you would regulate and tax gambling winnings, the government decided not to implement those recommendations simply because it would be too difficult to set up and wouldn't be very productive. So all they did was focus on operators and not punters. But people using that as a cop to suggest that because gamblers don't pay income tax means they are cheating the taxpayer annoys me when we have had no control over whether we do or don't.

sent the tweets. RIU joey

Looking forward to Joey's next update, I know he has a lot of important meetings scheduled and a LNP Senator (not sure if I can say who) asked specifically to meet him to discuss it this week, and I know he has several other key meetings as well, plus Leyonhjelm has been gathering info to make his submission for the amendment which is good for us.

Right now everyone should be contacting their senators using our hashtag and asking them to support the Leyonhjelm amendment to save online poker/provide growth jobs and revenue/support freedom prior to passing the IGA.

Joey/Swoop, thanks for your efforts and good luck. A couple of thoughts for your upcoming meetings if not already considered would be
- maybe referencing the Odd Oddsen HU match against the Norwegian politician that fed into their legislative considerations a couple of years back as part of any discussion about it being a skill game.
- tying this into the broader argument about being good for the brain, general research suggesting such activities have preventive benefits re dementia etc
-noting that those who benefit most in these respects I.e. the elderly and the disabled are those who are less likely to be able to use anything other than online option. So there's a public health detriment and associated cost to community in banning.
-Guy who won AAPT Queenstown a few years ago who has cerebral palsy might be worth getting involved in some capacity if he is still around and going okay

Joey what is your Stars ID - will donate at some point

Sent the tweets, even though I've never used Twitter before.

Great work Joey, you're a star whatever happens.

Also received the below a couple of weeks ago after I sent the auto email.

Dear BornToRun

Thank you for your email regarding the Interactive Gambling Amendment Bill 2016 (the Bill).

The Interactive Gambling Act 2001 (the IGA) aims to minimise the scope of problem gambling among Australians by limiting online gambling services to those provided by operators licenced in Australia. The IGA makes it an offence for unlicenced gambling operators and their associates to provide or advertise interactive gambling services to customers in Australia.

Prohibited services include online casino-style gaming services of chance or mixed skill and chance, including online poker, which are played for money or anything else of value.

The Government intends to uphold the original intent of the IGA. Online poker will remain a prohibited interactive gambling service and operators of such services may be subject to enforcement actions contained in the Bill.

In 2015 the Government commenced an inquiry into the impact of illegal offshore wagering, conducted by The Hon Barry O’Farrell. The inquiry found that up to $400 million is spent by Australians on illegal offshore gambling providers each year. This presents several problems:
greater risk for consumers because legal protections are not in place and standard consumer protections are often absent;
less tax revenue for governments, less product and other fees for the racing and sports industries, and fewer jobs for Australians; and
some illegal offshore gambling sites are connected to crime syndicates.

The inquiry report was released publicly and is available at https://www.dss.gov.au/communities-a...shore-wagering. In response, the Government introduced the Interactive Gambling Amendment Bill 2016 to implement a number of the inquiry’s recommendations.

The Bill will amend the IGA to introduce a range of measures to crack down on illegal offshore providers, including:
Clarify the law to make it clear that it is illegal for overseas gambling companies to offer gambling products to Australians unless the person or company holds a licence under the law of an Australian State or Territory. Currently, the law is ambiguous as to whether or not it is illegal for offshore wagering companies to provide gambling products to Australians if they are not licenced in Australia;
Empower the Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA) with new civil penalties, complementing the existing criminal penalties powers held by the Australian Federal Police, and allow the ACMA to be responsible for the entire complaint handling process from receipt to enforcement; and
Introduce other disruption measures to curb illegal offshore gambling activity, such as placing company directors or principals of offending gambling companies on the Movement Alert List so any travel to Australia can be disrupted.


On 30 November 2016, the Senate Environment and Communications Legislation Committee released their inquiry report which was informed by public submissions from industry and community representatives. The Committee recommended that the Bill be passed.

For more information on the Committee’s inquiry and report, you can visit the Parliament of Australia website at: http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees

Thank you again for your email and feedback.

Best regards

Michael

Michael Sukkar MP

It is more a moral objection than anything rather than a legal one with some professional gamblers, who are winning players, that cheat the tax payer by claiming welfare when they really are earning an income that is sufficient enough to support themselves.

This debate is ridiculous, you can't just get a hand out every week because you have no job. You either have to spend a huge amount of hours looking for jobs or be going to interviews. I have multiple friends who are on welfare at the moment and its a nightmare for them.

pro tip: any professional poker player that is wasting their time getting handouts is probably not a professional poker player.

Edit: Also like to add I'd probably happily pay tax if I could claim back all the rake I pay. Would also very very happily pay an insane amount of tax if bookmakers stopped banning my accounts. Anyone that has not played for a living has no idea what it takes to be successful, especially in 2017.

Nice post. Also worth focussing on the recent brains vs Ai challenge where poker was seen as the last game of skill to be beaten - after chess and go

His Stars ID is JosephDel

The guy you're referring to is Jono Bredin, he's doing well and is currently a motivational speaker and still plays recreationally. I actually helped him play a live tourney once as his check cards/put chips in assistant when his normal assistant had a day off and he really wanted to play an event and wouldn't have been able to otherwise. I agree he'd be an excellent person to make a submission to the govt as it is obviously very difficult for him to play live poker on a regular basis as he needs an assistant to do so, vs online he can play by himself with no issues on his specialised tablet device thing. He also has the dream story as a physically disabled person of being able to travel for poker after winning an online satellite then going on to win the tournament. I'll get in touch with him if Joey thinks it's a good idea, maybe see if he can make a submission of some sort to the debate. I know there are plenty of other physically disabled people who may struggle to play many other competitive games of skill due to their physical situation or get to a venue to play live but they are able to enjoy online poker on level terms with everyone else, it should be a point we bring up.

Thanks transfer now processing

That's good to hear. Think this sort of example of people using poker to transition to other positive careers is good for the argument. One of the problems with that Jarrod article is that anyone community minded who reads that is probably going to wonder whether poker was the best thing for him longer term ban or no ban.

Yeah for sure and from memory there was also something in the post reporting about him using the money to buy a new and better wheelchair or something too.

For sure, imo, now that bill seemingly has bipartisan support across major parties, the only chance would be to sufficiently differentiate poker from other forms of gambling being targeted

Agree, probably worth referencing both.

The brains v AI could be presented as new evidence that wasn't available last November (would just need to be ready for the risks around bots to be possibly raised.

The Oddsen thing is also good as it is a precedent of a politician having his mind changed on the issue during a debate on the issue (although i'm not sure if it actually led to any legislative recognition)

Monday Action Plan!

The Interactive Gambling Amendment Bill is listed for debate in the Senate today!

There is no time to waste. Use the link below to find the Senators in your state. Call their Parliament office number and say the following (or similar):

"Hello, my name is <INSERT NAME> and I live in <INSERT SUBURB>.

I am a taxpayer and a voter. Please don't let the government ban the hobby I love.

Support Senator Leyonhjelm's amendment of the Interactive Gambling Amendment Bill to exclude online poker. This will allow the tens of thousands of Australians who enjoy playing poker, including myself, to have the freedom to play the game we love in a safe and secure manner.

Thank you"

http://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_M...=-1&gen=0&ps=0